All Blacks v Wallabies, Dunedin, 19th October 2013

[emuarse]

I saw some very good signs this afternoon, sufficient to believe that if Australian rugby ever embraces physical conditioning appropriate for the sport, specifically focussing on really heavy strength training, we have the potential to be a seriously competitive force, including against the All Blacks.

I should live so long.
.

Didn't the Waratahs concentrate on that for their forwards last year (2012), and admitted later that it affected their aerobic ability to get around the field by overdoing the muscle building.

 

[emuarse]

The conundrum over James Horwill's form slump has a few angles to it. The captaincy issue is that he is a follow me into battle type leader but his current form isn't reflecting that but when he is in form, it works well. Who replaces him? The only other viable choice that can be considered on the grounds that when in form, practically walks into the Wallaby 15 is Genia but he is only just working his way out of his own form slump. There is Mowen but moving forward he is far from a certain to be in the starting 15 in the future. In reality I think a fit Higgers would displace him from the Wallaby 8 jersey quickly and surely Fardy has made significant ground in locking in that 6 jersey.

To me Horwill's issue looks like a confidence in his body issue. It is like he is just waiting for the next major injury and has slipped into preservation mode. That's no good Kev. How do you snap out of it?

Could Horwill be carrying a niggle which is causing him to back off a bit? Just the merest drop in intensity from a forward is highlighted at this level.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Didn't the Waratahs concentrate on that for their forwards last year (2012), and admitted later that it affected their aerobic ability to get around the field by overdoing the muscle building.

My mail is that the training that the Waratahs' forwards did pre-season in 2012 was about as far away as you could get from "physical conditioning appropriate for the sport, specifically focussing on really heavy strength training". Bulking up is not what it should be about, although it can be a by-product of low-rep heavy lifting. I'm talking basic exercises like squats and dead lifts rather that Olympic lifting which is much more about technique than strength building. And you shouldn't train heavy just in the pre-season; it needs to be continued throughout the season, even throughout the finals - when eventually we get back there. And it shouldn't be restricted to forwards.

And if you're lucky enough to have in your gym really advanced rugby-specific strength equipment like the MyoQuip machines, you should use them rather than throw them out or leave them gathering dust in the corner of the gym.
.

 

[RedsHappy]

For me the best thing to come from Dunedin, and it was a massive event, was this:

The Confirmed Exit from the Long Nightmare of the Deans Era.

We are restoring an ability to design and execute ensemble tries via a reasonably coherent back line.

We are believing in our capacity to attack.

We showed an ability to put a big score on the ABs away.

We have a 9-10-12-13 combo that looks genuinely threatening and is beginning to work together without routine handling errors

We played reasonably well in H2 vs collapsing.

We kicked perfectly under plenty of pressure.

We still have serious deficiencies in our forwards work and in defence, where clearly superior specialised coaching is required vs the mediocrity of the ARU's post-RWC assistant coaching choices in these areas - the rate of improvement in these crucial competencies throughout 2013 is virtually zero which is totally unacceptable. In fact, to this point at least, the only specialist coach that is starting to show some added value is McKay. Our backrow was again exposed as a huge weakness - Link seems to believe the work of a classic 7 is not required in Tests, he'll pay/is paying a mighty price for that oddity of judgement.

 

[Penguin]

Yep, Horwill has been a shadow of himself since his injury. I keep expecting him to come good, but no dice. Sad. Great Wallaby teams have always had great second rowers.

There is no reason why he won't come out of this form slump & still be regarded as a great second rower. It happens to all players, injury prone or not. I'll back him to get back sooner rather than later.

 

[hughbert]

Is it just me being negative, or do the ABs ruin far less promising backline movements through the intervention of a front rower than we do?

I swear, whenever the AB backline finds itseld in space, the players around the space are the outside backs. When we do it, James fucking Slipper ends up being second or third receiver.

Edit: or Moore.

 

[Bowside]

And how many Wallaby front liners were missing? Add the fact that our depth is about one tenth of what N.Z. Rugby has I'd say this statement is irrelevant.

It's not though.

When you look at where we made metres last night, nearly all our breaks were in the 13 channel. The All Blacks defences was well below standard last night, the same thing just doesn't happen when C.Smith is playing.

Crudens kicking isnt what carters is.

It is small things I know - but the score flattered us last night. Our execution is still woeful.

 

[hughbert]

As for JOC (James O'Connor), fuck him.

The Wallabies are now officially improving. Betham looks likely and we know Tomane is improving.

If this side fixes its defensive issues, they're going to be very competetive again. Transplanting in a locker room cancer just because he's promised that he's finally figured it out (for the 3rd time) is not the way forward.

(Also, his talent is vastly talked up).

 

[Bowside]

To be fair to Kuridrani - he's the first choice 13 for mine now. That left foot step at speed is classic 13 play. Forms a better combination with his winger than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as well. I think once O'Connor is back they will form a dangerous combo down that wing.

 

[hughbert]

It's not though.

When you look at where we made metres last night, nearly all our breaks were in the 13 channel. The All Blacks defences was well below standard last night, the same thing just doesn't happen when C.Smith is playing.

Crudens kicking isnt what carters is.

It is small things I know - but the score flattered us last night. Our execution is still woeful.

Injuries and being generally available are a part of the sport. Cruden was the best 10 available to them. C Smith has gone elsewhere for a bit.

Once you start qualifying what happens on the field with "well, if they had so and so available", you might as well wonder about how good we might be if the NRL didn't exist, or if Pocock was fit, or Higginbotham, or Palu.

 

[Dan54]

Dan54,
I think where the excitement lies, is that this team is on an improvement path. What we the fans do or say is probably fairly irrelevant to how the squad sees itself.
What I particularly enjoyed was how the Wallabies gave it everything (as did indeed the AB's) after the final hooter.
There was national pride at stake.
I think under Deans era, a player would just have kicked the ball out, and said, where's the bar?

Emu, I in no way trying to knock Wallaby supporters for being excited or pleased with way the team has improved and spirit they showed, was just trying to say or point out that unfortutauneatly sometimes too much can be taken out of improvement and then what is forgotten it is still a loss. As I have told mates today family etc in NZ have all said how well Wallabies played, and how pleased they were about it, but I think you have to remember a win is what you relly want.

 

[wamberal]

I don't agree. Nothing wrong with spreading out responsibility amongst the playing group. That is how the coach sees it and it is how the coach managed the same player at the Reds.

Calling the lineouts is a huge responsibility, and I might be wrong, but it has always seemed to be the province of the leading lock. Martin Johnson, John Eales, Victor Matfield, etc. Horwill was not calling the lineouts under Deans, either. That might be where I got the idea that he does not want the responsibility. But I think you will find that it is fairly common knowledge that he does not want it.

The player who was developed into a lineout caller is frequently in the starting 15 partnering him at lock. Then there is Mowen also who is currently doing the job.

Mowen has been calling the lineouts all season for the Wobbs.

We don't need Horwill calling lineouts and we have heard from Scott Allan in the past that he is more than capable should it be required, but clearly it isn't. I don't get where you got the idea of him not being willing. Was this a telepathic insight or did you read the tea leaves? The issue revolves around the coaches will, not the players will.

And you, telepathically, know that Horwill is actually willing to call them? Or was that the tea leaves?

Under your logic, why is Sam Whitelock calling the AB lineout rather than Reid or McCaw?

My logic is that one of the locks should call the lineouts, usually the senior lock takes the responsibility, in my limited experience with the game. It is, after all, tactically hugely important in rugby to win your own lineouts, and to put pressure on your opponents. AFAIK, McCaw and Read are not locks. I saw that in my tea leaves.

 

[Dan54]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash3/q71/s720x720/1382221_734016639945102_782373966_n.jpg

Do you know this is best pic I have seen for a long time, Wallabies have been known for not mixing or entering opposition dressing rooms for last few years, this pic shows that is not case and also one of the beauties of players swapping jersey, makes me think that game is alive and kicking again as I want it to!!

 

[Bowside]

Injuries and being generally available are a part of the sport. Cruden was the best 10 available to them. C Smith has gone elsewhere for a bit.

Once you start qualifying what happens on the field with "well, if they had so and so available", you might as well wonder about how good we might be if the NRL didn't exist, or if Pocock was fit, or Higginbotham, or Palu.

Likewise when you start patting yourselves on the back for nearly beating the All Blacks you're living in lala land.

Win back the bledisloe first and then start talking about improved performances.

 

[hughbert]

Likewise when you start patting yourselves on the back for nearly beating the All Blacks you're living in lala land.

Win back the bledisloe first and then start talking about improved performances.

You're not capable of ranking losing performances and acknowlegding progress?

Ok.

 

[Shiggins]

I only caught the second half last night because of a wedding. Just watched the anthem. Peter Bethem thank you for showing your emotion. It's something the wallabies get criticised for, not enough emotion and pride, but you can see how much this inclusion meant to Peter. Congrats on his 1st test and with that emotion he will probably be around for a while. Really made me proud to be an Australian rugby fan.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

As did indeed his Assistant Referees. Don't they realize they are more than linesmen?[/p

Beat me to that comment. It was the most blatant of a number of "clean outs" which looked like tackling the man without the ball. It's nothing new for NZ and nothing new that the refs don't pick them up on it. I recall the northern hemisphere outrage when BOD was "cleaned out" by Umaga.

But Reid appears to have taken on McCaw's dual cloaks of infallibility and of omniscience of the Laws as far as some of the refs go - as one example, he called Beetham's knock down deliberate and Joubert appeared to react to Reid rather than go with his first reaction which IMHO would have been correct. Maybe it's ex officio if you are the captain of the darkness.

 

[Bowside]

You're not capable of ranking losing performances and acknowlegding progress?

Ok.

I said it was an improved performance by the wallabies in the first line of my original comment on the relative strength of this all blacks team.

It was an improved performance. But I saw nothing to suggest we have improved sufficiently in certain areas to win a grand slam.

 

[hughbert]

I said it was an improved performance by the wallabies in the first line of my original comment on the relative strength of this all blacks team.

It was an improved performance. But I saw nothing to suggest we have improved sufficiently in certain areas to win a grand slam.

Fortunately, whether or not you see it is entirely academic.

 

[Muttonbird]

Injuries and being generally available are a part of the sport. Cruden was the best 10 available to them. C Smith has gone elsewhere for a bit.

Once you start qualifying what happens on the field with "well, if they had so and so available", you might as well wonder about how good we might be if the NRL didn't exist, or if Pocock was fit, or Higginbotham, or Palu.

Fair enough hughbert but the NRL still exists for NZ also. In fact it takes a significant proportion of our talent straight out of high-school.