All Blacks v Wallabies, Dunedin, 19th October 2013

[CTPE]

I've watched the game twice now and whilst it was a spirited and encouraging performance by the Wobs we are still off the AB's pace and will remain so until we can match their mongrel, speed and cynical play at the breakdown. The AB's always excel at disrupting in this area, limiting their opponents clean ball, time and space. Their "whatever it takes" attitude is always effective but frustrating to watch given the multitude of things they get away with. Horwill's leadership was abysmal - in fact it was non existent - give me a captain who is continually in the ref's ear physically pointing out the other side's indiscretions and demanding that they be addressed by the man with the whistle.

Other than with Hooper we didn't lack size in the forwards against the AB's but we certainly didn't match their skill with the ball in hand or leg drive in contact. Other than Moore's efforts in early part of the first half the body height and leg speed in our forward carries were amateurish. The AB's forwards when caught out wide in attack also displayed sublime skills in the catch and pass and draw and pass areas whereas on too many occasions the Wobs forwards when in a similar position just put their heads down and tried to burrow ahead frustrating the crap in those outside of them. Being able to count heads in attack and see an overlap or someone quicker than you in potential space are basic skills which the majority of our forwards sadly lack.

Whilst I love Hooper's attitude and commitment and just wish he could infect some of those around him with it - it's sad to say his lack of size against opponents in the top world teams is a deficiency in the Wobs team makeup. Wish he was 5 cm taller and 8-10 kegs heavier.

 

[fatprop]

That's a pretty shit, defeatist attitude, same thing Deans got criticised for last year.

We can agree to disagree, we were being measured against the clear best side in the world.

To me it is a realistic attitude, we are getting better, but against the true current measure we aren't there yet.

Simply our execution, decision making and effort under pressure is not yet of the same standard

 

[fatprop]

Hooper v Cane - just as it was in the U20s final. Hooper that day finished on top and iirc was man of the series. But Cane has come on further in the meantime and now has the better of Michael.

Cane was getting a bit more help, I would suggest Hooper would have looked just as good playing with that AB lot

 

[Tangawizi]

Positive for us from this year's Bledisloe Cup series - Higher average points scored by the Wallabies than any year during the Deans Era.

Negative for us - 38.3 is the highest average points conceded by the Wallabies in a Bledisloe Cup series ever

 

[Zander]

I get what you're saying but they still lost by 8 points, they cannot be happy with that performance, there's still plenty to do and as far as from what I've seen it cannot be called an improvement onwards from a 40 point Test away win.

Slippery slop once you start patting yourself on the back for losing.

 

[wamberal]

If Horwill wants to be captain, or a leader of the team, he needs to start calling the bloody lineouts. It is beyond pathetic that our leading lock is not willing to take this responsibility on. With all due respect to Mowen, it is beyond ludicrous that he HAS to be in the side on the back of his abilities as a lineout caller.

 

[Slim 293]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash3/q71/s720x720/1382221_734016639945102_782373966_n.jpg

 

[Mr Doug]

Our lock combo has to be looked at. I would love to see Sam Carter on the end of year tour and to see Fardy looked at as lock option. When Higgers is back Fardy would be damn useful in the second row. I know some will say he is too small to be an international lock but he is taller and heavier than Brad Thorn.

I've been wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned cousin Sammy for the EOYT!

 

[ACT Crusader]

"Fantastic carry" = the wallaby forward got to the gain line and after contact maybe just got over it.

Any one know where you can get the NZ commentary - Is there a button on fox tell you can press as there was for the Lions tests?

That description made me laugh TIP

By the way, you don't want the NZ commentary, they aren't much better.

I watched it with Burke and Bray with Dowd and the Evil Wizard providing expert comments from the sidelines. Wasn't too bad I thought.

 

[refugee]

What summed up the difference to me was watching Retallic rough up the Australian captain on the ground with impunity.
Until we belt them back for that sort of treatment we will never win even if we reach parity in skills.

 

[Zander]

If Horwill wants to be captain, or a leader of the team, he needs to start calling the bloody lineouts. It is beyond pathetic that our leading lock is not willing to take this responsibility on. With all due respect to Mowen, it is beyond ludicrous that he HAS to be in the side on the back of his abilities as a lineout caller.

Forget the lineouts. He needs to improve his overall game. He's dropping balls before contact, he's getting smashed beyond the gain line and he's not being effective at any breakdowns. Physically he looks the biggest lock out on the field yet he's the least effect at collisions.

The main difference between the two sides are dominant tackling and/or stronger ball carrying and support play.

 

[TOCC]

I get what you're saying but they still lost by 8 points, they cannot be happy with that performance, there's still plenty to do and as far as from what I've seen it cannot be called an improvement onwards from a 40 point Test away win.

Slippery slop once you start patting yourself on the back for losing.

nonsense, there were 4 players in the Wallaby back-line with less then 10 caps yet they still managed to put 33points on the worlds best team..

Of course there is still plenty to do, but this team is improving and given that blokes like Betham, Quade and To'omua had never played a game together, they did pretty well..

 

[wamberal]

Yep, Horwill has been a shadow of himself since his injury. I keep expecting him to come good, but no dice. Sad. Great Wallaby teams have always had great second rowers.

 

[emuarse]

Betham was ok, but he should make way for Tomane and Cummins

I think when JOC (James O'Connor) learns team ethics that he will replace them all. He has the x-factor.

 

[emuarse]

Just thought they were a little over top about how well Wallabies went, I thought they played quite well, but they lost and although they played well, if you get overly excited howwell your team has played when they have been beaten, I tend to think you then become happy losing. I will rewatch tomorrow if I can be bothered and maybe withdraw my comments so mono and Chunder can sleep calmly!!!

Dan54,
I think where the excitement lies, is that this team is on an improvement path. What we the fans do or say is probably fairly irrelevant to how the squad sees itself.
What I particularly enjoyed was how the Wallabies gave it everything (as did indeed the AB's) after the final hooter.
There was national pride at stake.
I think under Deans era, a player would just have kicked the ball out, and said, where's the bar?

 

[Ruggo]

If Horwill wants to be captain, or a leader of the team, he needs to start calling the bloody lineouts. It is beyond pathetic that our leading lock is not willing to take this responsibility on. With all due respect to Mowen, it is beyond ludicrous that he HAS to be in the side on the back of his abilities as a lineout caller.

I don't agree. Nothing wrong with spreading out responsibility amongst the playing group. That is how the coach sees it and it is how the coach managed the same player at the Reds. The player who was developed into a lineout caller is frequently in the starting 15 partnering him at lock. Then there is Mowen also who is currently doing the job. We don't need Horwill calling lineouts and we have heard from Scott Allan in the past that he is more than capable should it be required, but clearly it isn't. I don't get where you got the idea of him not being willing. Was this a telepathic insight or did you read the tea leaves? The issue revolves around the coaches will, not the players will. Maybe man love is clouding my judgement but James Horwill has never struck me as the type of player to shirk responsibility.

Under your logic, why is Sam Whitelock calling the AB lineout rather than Reid or McCaw?

 

[BDA]

I think when JOC (James O'Connor) learns team ethics that he will replace them all. He has the x-factor.

To be honest, i think we should just forget about JOC (James O'Connor) for the time being.

we've seen an improvement already of the attitude of the players with the likes of O'Connor and Beale gone. JOC (James O'Connor), like Cooper, should be made to work hard to get a spot back in the 23.

Cooper appears to have gone away and become a better, more mature, player. I hope JOC (James O'Connor) does the same because there is no doubt JOC (James O'Connor) is the best winger we have in terms of pure skill.

but for the time being JOC (James O'Connor) needs to get to the back of the line

 

[emuarse]

This basically echos my above comments about Hooper. I think weneed someone like Pocock (or even Gill) that is going to put more pressure on at the breakdown and not just hitting the ball up in the backline.

Also I did notice what you're referring to. The most obvious one was were Kieran Read completely cleaned up Hooper about 2 metres behind the ruck. Joubert was right next to it and just let play continue.

As did indeed his Assistant Referees. Don't they realize they are more than linesmen?

 

[terry j]

I think under Deans era, a player would just have kicked the ball out, and said, where's the bar?

'Too high' would have been the answer then. Now? Well maybe there is a modicum of self belief.

 

[Mr Doug]

1. Our guys played with confidence.
2. They won the second half.
3. Izzy needs to run at an opponent about to score a try, and not pull out before that player has placed the ball down.
4. According to ABC radio news this morning, that was the highest score that the Wallabies have ever recorded against the ABs in NZ! (Can anyone confirm this)?