National Rugby Championship 2014

[I like to watch]

HELLO! Sponsoring a junket to Singapore for a 7's tournament two years ago,means nothing.
How have they gone in 2012 & 2013 with this Alliance?
Despite the assistance with recruiting from the Tahs coach,2/3 of the comp beat them in 2013.In fact the Rats who didn't even make the finals beat them twice.
Now you suggest on their own,they will beat a combination of teams that kicked their arse for years?
Yeah,that's progress!

 

[Andrew Jackson]

hmmmm...

Everyone has different teams they want to see compete.

If you had to pick three derbies that you would be most keen to watch, what would they be?
(Rules - You can't pick more than three, and you have to give reason why and who you would go for in the clashes)

These would be my three in order...

1. Randwick (syndicate) v Brothers (syndicate - if they submitted one? Anyone know?)

Two most successful clubs at the Australian Club Championship.
Australian Club Champions;

• 6 wins: Randwick (founded 1882, 31 1st Grade Titles)
• 4 wins: Brothers (founded 1905, 27 'A' Grade Titles)

Results where they have faced off;

• 1974 Brothers 45-22 Randwick
• 1982 Randwick 22-13 Brothers
• 1983 Randwick 32-29 Brothers
• 1985 Brothers 10-6 Randwick
• 1988 Randwick 27-9 Brothers

I'd always be going for Brothers to get up.

2. Northside Brisbane v Southside Brisbane

• Natural north of the River verse South of the River rivalry in Brisbane.
• I'd be going for South Brisbane without question.

3. Randwick v Western Sydney

• Strong East v West rivalry in Sydney.
• Would go for the underdog, or team with most exciting rugby.

 

[MACCA]

HELLO! Sponsoring a junket to Singapore for a 7's tournament two years ago,means nothing.
How have they gone in 2012 & 2013 with this Alliance?
Despite the assistance with recruiting from the Tahs coach,2/3 of the comp beat them in 2013.In fact the Rats who didn't even make the finals beat them twice.
Now you suggest on their own,they will beat a combination of teams that kicked their arse for years?
Yeah,that's progress!

Mate - you love Randwick so much you will obviously enjoy watching them play in the NRC. It is clear that no factual debate will satisfy your negativity towards Randwick which is fair enough. Such passion is obviously what the ARU are seeking and you have provided great examples of why traditional clubs such as Randwick should be appointed over made up syndicates. Thanks for that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Mate - you love Randwick so much you will obviously enjoy watching them play in the NRC. It is clear that no factual debate will satisfy your negativity towards Randwick which is fair enough. Such passion is obviously what the ARU are seeking and you have provided great examples of why traditional clubs such as Randwick should be appointed over made up syndicates. Thanks for that.

Macca it's a valid point. They have been linked for 2 years allegedly and there's been no evidence that UNSW have been able to assist in providing a professional sport/high performance program which would be adequate.

I'd say the fact that they have been aligned for 2 years so far with nothing seemingly to show for it is a huge negative.

The fact of the matter is Randwick are essentially trying to say they've progressed to the level of Syndey Uni's program, to a level greater than any other club can manage on their own, despite the fact that there has been nothing to suggest so. In fact based on their progression in the Shute Shield recently, you would suggest otherwise. The fact is that barring Sydney Uni, all JV syndicates will get significantly stronger due to pooling of resources.

Randwick are in a JV with a party they are already linked with for minimal results... Not sure why we should be expecting any improvement in their program or financial position.

 

[Train Without a Station]

1. Randwick (syndicate) v Brothers (syndicate - if they submitted one? Anyone know?)

Two most successful clubs at the Australian Club Championship.
Australian Club Champions;

• 6 wins: Randwick (founded 1882, 31 1st Grade Titles)
• 4 wins: Brothers (founded 1905, 27 'A' Grade Titles)

Results where they have faced off;

• 1974 Brothers 45-22 Randwick
• 1982 Randwick 22-13 Brothers
• 1983 Randwick 32-29 Brothers
• 1985 Brothers 10-6 Randwick
• 1988 Randwick 27-9 Brothers

Mate, would be great. It's just unfortunate that due to the factors in play this isn't likely to occur. This sort of thing is what I always thought would be great in a National Rugby Competition. Unfortunately with QRU allegedly running both QLD bids and Randwick's financial state and previous administration/management history it doesn't look like a reality.

 

[Dave Beat]

Mate - you love Randwick so much you will obviously enjoy watching them play in the NRC. It is clear that no factual debate will satisfy your negativity towards Randwick which is fair enough. Such passion is obviously what the ARU are seeking and you have provided great examples of why traditional clubs such as Randwick should be appointed over made up syndicates. Thanks for that.

@Macca, I'm with ILtW with regards to Randwick in the model that has been floated. That said I was also happy with re modeling the SS & Premier so it was to become the 3T. The The second half of 2012 when it was the Top 6 (that Randwick didn't get a start in) was a perfect example of 3T rugby. Include QLD's and grow / develop on those foundations.

 

[I like to watch]

Mate - you love Randwick so much you will obviously enjoy watching them play in the NRC. It is clear that no factual debate will satisfy your negativity towards Randwick which is fair enough. Such passion is obviously what the ARU are seeking and you have provided great examples of why traditional clubs such as Randwick should be appointed over made up syndicates. Thanks for that.

The facts are,that Randwick is not competitive in their present competition.
In what field do you get promoted for doing poorly?
Randwick will be the human bye.

 

[Dave Beat]

The facts are,that Randwick is not competitive in their present competition.
In what field do you get promoted for doing poorly?
Randwick will be the human bye.

ILtW - i meant you above not Without a Station (Edit - I mean you both after reading above).
Human bye - i disagree with you here and that is the reason for my concern.

ARU want / need to see this succeed, NSWRU want to see this succeed, shit we all do - my concern players may end up playing with Randwick because "of influence / instruction" and not hard work by the stand alone entity.

I have know doubt each entity is putting in allot of hard work and volunteered hours - but entities within the suggested JV structures have competed in the top 4 for a number of years now , and simply has not, how can they possibly stand alone with super players gravitating there, and then I have to ask - influence?

 

[Rugby Central]

ILtW - i meant you above not Without a Station (Edit - I mean you both after reading above).
Human bye - i disagree with you here and that is the reason for my concern.

ARU want / need to see this succeed, NSWRU want to see this succeed, shit we all do - my concern players may end up playing with Randwick because "of influence / instruction" and not hard work by the stand alone entity.

I have know doubt each entity is putting in allot of hard work and volunteered hours - but entities within the suggested JV structures have competed in the top 4 for a number of years now , and simply has not, how can they possibly stand alone with super players gravitating there, and then I have to ask - influence?

DB and many others concerned about what may or may happen to player movement, your fears are valid but probably overstated. Players will get a run at the higher level if their good enough. Not because of their Club. If players want to move somewhere to get in a queue then they're just stupid. If Clubs want to play guys not really up to standard at their own Club then good luck to them. It'll bite them in the arse when they start losing.

The only valid reason players will go to Randwick (or anywhere else) is if they honestly feel it will make them good enough to play at a higher level. If you are right about Ranwick's management over the last few years then these players will lose out. If they can start running programmes as beneficial as USyd then surely that can only be good for rugby.

Do you really believe Randwick would sabotage the 3T competition to improve their SS result? If that's the case then we may as well call it a day.

 

[Dave Beat]

DB and many others concerned about what may or may happen to player movement, your fears are valid but probably overstated. Players will get a run at the higher level if their good enough. Not because of their Club. If players want to move somewhere to get in a queue then they're just stupid. If Clubs want to play guys not really up to standard at their own Club then good luck to them. It'll bite them in the arse when they start losing.

The only valid reason players will go to Randwick (or anywhere else) is if they honestly feel it will make them good enough to play at a higher level. If you are right about Ranwick's management over the last few years then these players will lose out. If they can start running programmes as beneficial as USyd then surely that can only be good for rugby.

Do you really believe Randwick would sabotage the 3T competition to improve their SS result? If that's the case then we may as well call it a day.

I'll jump in quickly - I HAVE NEVER RAISED CONCERN ABOUT RANDWICKS MGMT.

With reference to the red above, non Wallabies returning will be parachuted in because the last 2 years suggest they wont compete if they have the same players. Influenced to go there.

These players and other reasons will have a positive impact, I can't believe people are trying to say they will not. A Stand Alone club will undoubtedly benefit from;
Gate,
Extended season,
The super players profile.

 

[Rugby Central]

I'll jump in quickly - I HAVE NEVER RAISED CONCERN ABOUT RANDWICKS MGMT.

With reference to the red above, non Wallabies returning will be parachuted in because the last 2 years suggest they wont compete if they have the same players. Influenced to go there.

These players and other reasons will have a positive impact, I can't believe people are trying to say they will not. A Stand Alone club will undoubtedly benefit from;
Gate,
Extended season,
The super players profile.

Hey DB, Apologies for infering the intent of your earlier comments. I was using the word management generically to cover lack of on field performance and the very public financial difficulties Randwick (and many others) have faced.

Yes the Club will get a positive benefit from players that come back to play in the 3T, plus gate receipts etc. They will also have significant costs not faced by Clubs not directly (read stand alone) involved in the 3rd tier.

What happens in year 1 is not going to be set in stone. The same way USyd turned themselves around, even Manly's improved off-field performance over recent years, Clubs will improve and decline as things change.

As I said before, the concerns a valid but I believe are over stated. The fact is whether it's Randwick, USyd or the Allambie Jets, if 3T works as a "product" - eveil as that word is - then the profile, sponsorship dollars, TV rights and recruitment opportunities will flow to the game as a whole.

I would rather be able to look back with disdain at the compromises we had to make in 2014 than watch a brilliant league centre from St Joseph's College Sydney in 2024 saying - "he would have been a craker of a 7 in union."

 

[Dave Beat]

Hey DB, Apologies for infering the intent of your earlier comments. I was using the word management generically to cover lack of on field performance and the very public financial difficulties Randwick (and many others) have faced.

All good, I'm sure we all want it to work and need to support it.

• SUni already tick the boxes on and off the field.
• Recent history on the paddock Randwick simply do not.

ARU want it to work so will support it in all ways possible.


As a stand alone club i believe they will undoubtedly benefit from;
Increased appeal in Sponsorship which has already been suggested,
Increased gate,
Extended season,
The Super Players having to be parachuted in because the team of the last 2 years haven't competed.
Plus the profile these Super Players will have on marketing.

 

[RugbyFuture]

with both the individual joint ventures, its scary to think people may gravitate towards those two clubs, and will be interesting to see how usyd and randwick separate the two entities to ensure fair recruiting practices for ss

 

[Dave Beat]

with both the individual joint ventures, its scary to think people may gravitate towards those two clubs, and will be interesting to see how usyd and randwick separate the two entities to ensure fair recruiting practices for ss

Why would they separate the 2 entities, whether in sport or business you take advantage of your strengths.
Tell me why don't players gravitate towards Penrith? without offending anyone as that is not my intent - because they don't have allot going for them. People generally gravitate to strengths, why don't all of Eastwood's 2nd graders gravitate towards a weaker club?

 

[RugbyFuture]

its true, but it would destroy the shield.

 

[Dave Beat]

From this weekends trial, I have taken way my Wallaby selections and Sydney Uni players.

1. Benn Robinson (Eastwood) - possibly wallaby squad.
2. Kane Douglas (Southern Districts)
3. Matt Lucas (Manly)
4. Alofa Alofa (West Harbour)
5. Jacques Potgieter (TBC)
6. Stephen Hoiles (Randwick)
7. Brendan McKibbin (Eastern Suburbs)
8. Jono Lance (Easter Suburbs)
9. Ben Volavola (Southern Districts)
10. Cam Crawford (Northern Suburbs)
11. David Horwitz, (Randwick)
12. Hugh Roach, (Eastwood)
13. Jed Holloway, (Southern Districts)
14. Rob Horne (Souther Districts)
15. Tim Metcher, (Southern Districts)
16. Greg Peterson. (Manly)

So with 4 teams excluding Uni that would mean say 4 players each. I'm still confused with Easts & Woodies so left them black.
NORTH
RANDWICK
WEST

 

[Dave Beat]

its true, but it would destroy the shield.

you confused me here?

 

[RugbyFuture]

they should use their strengths, but if they do leverage the NRC team for the SS team then the sheild would start getting destroyed from everyone pooling the players.

 

[Bowside]

Any info on the Queensland teams?

QRU doesn't leak like it use to.

 

[Dave Beat]

they should use their strengths, but if they do leverage the NRC team for the SS team then the sheild would start getting destroyed from everyone pooling the players.

That is my whole argument.

It will naturally happen, how can it not and how can it be prevented.
They can say all they like - the people posting here are all quite adament that it is a Randwick team standing alone, playing in green because of the rich history - a brand?

Which is why - for example - the old days use to have Nth Hbr & Sth Hbr rep teams and it was an achievement to make them.