2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy

[PaarlBok]

Good post.

However, we barely play rugby in Australia. Except for a few exclusive schools in Sydney and Brisbane primarily. It is the least played of any of the major sports in this country by quite a way.

Yet, we still beat you quite often.

You had a good win in the U20s. Congrats. However I suggest you temper your speech a little, as just like the scrums, you are beginning to Boer in.

You are spot on, we havent won anything yet. England will be a massive challenge on monday.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Do you mean the "2016 World Rugby U20 Championship Thread"?! Is there one yet?

Typo - well spotted. Should have been 2016

The 2016 World Rugby Under 20 Championship Thread will be started after this years finals are over.

 

[I like to watch]

Agreed.

Also agree with earlier posts that the backs didn't do much better than the piggies. Why do you think there were so many scrums - lost ball in the backs.

i don't think thats right.
if you swapped back lines the other day, i don't think the scoreline changes much at all.
im not suggesting all the backs covered themselves in glory,just that they were not outclassed to the same degree as the forwards.

 

[Brian Westlake]

^^ Because we are grown men, and we see the match for what it is.

The boys lost to a much better side, bad luck.

Unless you want to go and make systematic change with the ARU Junior Programs, and if you do good luck.

But I just support them and leave the head-scratching to those more equipped to improving the situation.

Sitting on your hands and doing nothing is good. That will improve the state of the nation

 

[TOCC]

Sitting on your hands and doing nothing is good. That will improve the state of the nation

Right, so what exactly are you doing to improve the state of the nation??


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[Brian Westlake]

It was pretty anti Queensland though. You picked out a bunch of players you didn't think should be there (or moreso players who shouldn't have been overlooked).

The reality of the game was that we got smashed up front and all the starting tight five are from NSW.

I don't think anyone is particularly convinced that those NSW players weren't the best options available but that is where our biggest weakness seems to lie.

My major one was the quota system. It reeks. As you get the faceless overbearing whiners saying there must be at least one picked from from one area as well as supporting the outlands of victoria etc. You cannot deny that this happens and then the cries of whichever S15 contracted player is there. queensland senior rugby is in a shambles. Why are the players leaving?
If it keeps going all the qld 20's boys will be S15, because everyone else has left. I think my thoughts on Mcininerney, as well as Nucifora, have not been disproved as of yet either.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Right, so what exactly are you doing to improve the state of the nation??


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At least volunteering at my club, and working with our other officials to develop a ground up education. It starts with involving grade players coaching young kids and leads upward from there.
Working pretty well over the years I would say too

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Monday night/ Tuesday morning on 502:

12:23 Australia v Scotland, 5th place SF
2:23 New Zealand v France, main SF
4:23 South Africa v England, main SF

Gonna be a looooong day at work on Tuesday..................

 

[Highlander35]

I'm interested. Excluding Placid, who's a former Queenslander, and a returning squad member, 5 of the 26 (Less than 20%) were selected from outside NSW and Queensland.

Tyrel Lomax, ACT, Prop
Connall McInerny, ACT, Hooker
Fereti Sa'aga, VIC, Prop
Sione Tuipuloto, VIC, Centre
Riley Winter, WA, Lock

I buy that there is at least 1 better lock and 1 better centre in NSW or QLD, whether objectively or otherwise. But there's 3 front rowers in there, 2 of which played NRC last season and all of which have played ahead of Pleash.

Who's missed out that should have been in the squad?

 

[Ash]

My major one was the quota system. It reeks. As you get the faceless overbearing whiners saying there must be at least one picked from from one area as well as supporting the outlands of victoria etc. You cannot deny that this happens and then the cries of whichever S15 contracted player is there. queensland senior rugby is in a shambles. Why are the players leaving?
If it keeps going all the qld 20's boys will be S15, because everyone else has left. I think my thoughts on Mcininerney, as well as Nucifora, have not been disproved as of yet either.

OK, which players from NSW would have made a difference? Keeping in mind that against SA we got smashed in the tight 5, and all tight 5 players were from NSW. You might also want to add in that the best forward was Gunn, from Queensland, and the best backs were Placid, contracted to the Rebels, and Paia'ua, contracted to the Reds.

How much bearing does the senior Reds team have on the U20s? Was it the same for you when the Tahs were a shambles, and the Brumbies were the Australian dominant team?

The supposed "quota" system has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is that their forwards were bigger, stronger, better.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Sitting on your hands and doing nothing is good. That will improve the state of the nation

Tell me about your changes Brian. I'm interested. It sounds like you have plenty of time on your hands, so I am quietly optimistic about the overhaul.

Go easy on the Kool-Aid.

 

[Brian Westlake]

OK, which players from NSW would have made a difference? Keeping in mind that against SA we got smashed in the tight 5, and all tight 5 players were from NSW. You might also want to add in that the best forward was Gunn, from Queensland, and the best backs were Placid, contracted to the Rebels, and Paia'ua, contracted to the Reds.

How much bearing does the senior Reds team have on the U20s? Was it the same for you when the Tahs were a shambles, and the Brumbies were the Australian dominant team?

The supposed "quota" system has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is that their forwards were bigger, stronger, better.

Lets dissect this.
The front 8 were smashed. M Gunn is the best loose forward on tour, agreed. I shall not pass judgment on the other for setting off everybody.
Discussing being contracted to the reds at the moment is no great claim to fame please. Why are the players leaving? Discuss.

The bearing of the senior team makes the selectors pick these men.
And yes, the Jaarpies are bigger and stronger.

Tell me about your changes Brian. I'm interested. It sounds like you have plenty of time on your hands, so I am quietly optimistic about the overhaul.

Go easy on the Kool-Aid.

Please read above Bob, and no, I don't have time. Try investing your time into qld rugby instead.
It gives great satisfaction to give back to the game, instead of sitting on the sideline pontificating.

 

[TOCC]

Brian, you've shown your true colours in your anti-QLD rants and when pressed to name the players from NSW who would have made a difference you've come up with nothing...

How about you actually put your money where your mouth is, name these NSW players who would have stated in the XV and who would have made a difference...


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[RugbyReg]

Discussing being contracted to the reds at the moment is no great claim to fame please. Why are the players leaving? Discuss.

who is leaving? Horwill and Genia, to 100+ cap veterans both of whom's form has been on the decline. They are off overseas to try something new and make some cash.

Hanson is leaving and has stated its because the Wallaby coach has specifically said he will only be considered for the Wallabies if he can show he plays 80 minute rugby.

Anyone else you want to discuss?

There's actually more players leaving the Tahs - Taquele, Palu, Kepu, JacPot, Foley, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a starting point.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

who is leaving? Horwill and Genia, to 100+ cap veterans both of whom's form has been on the decline. They are off overseas to try something new and make some cash.

Hanson is leaving and has stated its because the Wallaby coach has specifically said he will only be considered for the Wallabies if he can show he plays 80 minute rugby.

Anyone else you want to discuss?

There's actually more players leaving the Tahs - Taquele, Palu, Kepu, JacPot, Foley, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a starting point.

Would be nice to have some of these roosters available for the Under 20's @Rugby Reg, but I think the authorities may be on to us and ask to see proof of age.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Brian, you've shown your true colours in your anti-QLD rants and when pressed to name the players from NSW who would have made a difference you've come up with nothing.

How about you actually put your money where your mouth is, name these NSW players who would have stated in the XV and who would have made a difference.

I'll have a go, but unfortunately I can't name exclusive NSW replacements. When Gold is involved I try to rise above the Festival of Hate.

Front row. I reckon Alex Mafi or Ed Craig (in that order) should have been on the bench as a #2. The starters are probably as good as we have got. Vunipola Fifita may be the best option left in NSW but I have seen him getting bent out of shape in recent games, and think that in the long term he should transfer to hooker (if he could throw darts like Ed Craig does). There are some who really rate Sa'aga and Lomax but IMHO after Orr and Sandell, pickings are slim and we've probably got the pick of the bunch in Italy on the bench and holding the tackling bags.

Second row. I think Lukhan Lealaiaulotu-Tui rawness was exposed. Possibly Winter to start. Would like to see Hanigan at 6 but then who would be our locks? With another season under his belt and continued exposure to top level coaching, Lukhan has the potential to surpass Big Willie, From what I saw of him in the CHS II team last year, he has made absolutely stunning progress. The Other One (Nick K) could be useful to have in the squad for his utility but I'm not sure that he could force his way into the starting lineup.

Loose Forwards. Would have liked to see a more abrasive #6. While Lolo F can go missing and seagull at times and he has a bit to learn about the technical aspects of #6 play, he was missed, but team rehab is a fact of life. Would have liked to see Ned H get a gig there but who is in the engine room if that is the case? I like the look of McCalman. He has a very efficient style to his game and can read the game well with a habit of popping up at the right place and time but he really isn't big enough to be a 6 or 8 and is behind Gunn as a 7. I don't think NSW have any better players that warranted selection.

Halfback. Mitchell Short probably should have been there, on the bench if not starting. Nucifora seemed to be the lucky one.

Five eighth. I reckon the best we have were there. I have not seen him play for a long time, but I can only think that possibly Corey Tulloch could have done a Bradbury.

Centres. Jack Redden seems to be the off course substitute for this role, and while I have my reservations over Sione T, mainly related to inexperience and the way he was used by the Coach, I reckon the current mob in Italy probably deserve their slot. Speaking of inexperience, another bloke straight out of school who was originally selected but was injured is Henry Hutchison. He started for the Wicks first grade on Saturday and the reports from the Wicks faithful were very favourable. He appears to be fit enough, perhaps he should have been on the plane as a late replacement. Duncan P is an interesting case in point. He is definitely talented and a work in progress, and the Junior World Cup is not really the place for a Work in Progress but who else? I thought he seemed to go OK against the Saffers.

Not sure if he is up to Aust U20 standard this year but how did Latu Latunipulu miss out in a spot in the NSW U20 squad? He has been playing First Grade Footy for Randwick all year, and they are no mugs when it comes to talent identification and development. A name for next year perhaps.

Back Three. I think Campbell Magney may have been thrown into the deep end a year or two too early. From what I have seen of him at NRC, Super Rugby, he has shown some good pace but lacks the polish and native game cunning to really cut it at the level he is at this year. Tyson Davis was rated by many, but I thought he was defensively frail, but with Harry Jones in Team Rehab, who else do we have? Christian Yassmin has some pace but again looked a bit raw during the Oceania Tournament games. I really like Joey The Whippet Fittock but this year would be a year too soon for him. Maybe Patrick James could have been useful to have. How has he been going in Club footy?

Having played First Grade Rugby in a number of jurisdictions, I can say that standards vary widely from place to place, and also from club to club within a competition. Blanket statements that they should all have played or be playing First Grade Rugby serve little purpose in establishing a benchmark, although there are benefits in young fellas getting belted around from time to time by grizzly veterans of the game.

In short, I'd have taken Short for Nucifora, Mafi for McInnerney, Hutchison for Tuipolotu, Jones for Davis, but 3 of those were not fit when the plane left.

Given the state of the cattle in the mustering yard, I think Coach Thompson hasn't done too bad a job.

 

[Highlander35]

Australian U20s team to play Scotland:
1.Fereti Saaga
2.Folau Fainga'a
3.Matt Sandell
4.Riley Winter
5.Lukan Lealaialoto-tui
6.Ned Hanigan
7.Michael Gunn
8.Adam Korczyk
9.James Tuttle
10.Andrew Deegan
11.Andrew Kellaway (C)
12.Duncan Paia’aua
13.Sione Tuipolotu
14.Alex Newsome
15.Jonah Placid

Reserves
16.Cameron Orr
17.Connal McInerney
18.Tyrel Lomax
19.Sam Croke
20.Olly Kamp
21.Isaak Fines-Leleiwasa
22.James Dalgleish
23.Campbell Magnay

 

[Highlander35]

Scotland under-20 team to play Australia under-20 in the World Rugby Under-20 Championship fifth place semi-final, Stadio San Michele, Calvisano (kick-off 3.30pm GMT).

15 Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby)



14 Robbie Nairn (Harelquins)

13 Alec Coombes (London Scottish)

12 Patrick Kelly (Le Parc)

11 Richard Galloway (University of Birmingham)



10 Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints)

9 Ben Vellacott (Gloucester/Hartpury College)



1 Dan Elkington (Watsonians)

2 Ross Graham (Hawick)

3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)

4 Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks)

5 Andrew Davidson (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks)

6 Lewis Wynne (Stirling County)

7 Jamie Ritchie CAPTAIN (Edinburgh Rugby)

8 Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh Rugby)



Replacements

16 Sam James (Bedford Blues)

17 Callum Sheldon (Edinburgh Rugby/Watsonians)

18 Jack Owlett (Exeter University)

19 Ally Miller (Edinburgh Rugby/Watsonians)

20 Ruaridh Knott (Melrose)

21 George Horne (Glasgow Hawks)

22 Tom Galbraith (Melrose)

23 Archie Russell (Stirling County)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Re Australian team to play Scotland:

Squirrel no. 4 advises that Nucifora was in doubt and the third halfback had to be flown over in case.

Squirrel no 3 says that Redden is on his way to replace Quick.

Lukhan has a sore neck/shoulder and may be right for the next game.

Lolo is on the way home, and Wilkin popped the same shoulder as he did for Oz schools at Knox v. NZ two years ago, which should end his tournament.

Olly Kamp may get a run after all.
.

Jack McCalman is flying over.

Jack Mack carrying the Kicking Tee.
Jack Redden running the water.

Good to see that one of the emergency paratroopers getting a gig on the pine at #21.

Having dropped everything to get over to Italy post haste, you would want to at least get some pine splinters for your efforts.

Maybe they get a gig for the final game later this week.

I like the look of the back row.

Another random observation from the Saffer game that intrigued me at the time was the Referee warned Cameron Orr about his scrummaging in front of Brad Wilkin (IIRC) instead of calling the Captain in. Andrew Kellaway is undoubtedly a skilful player with a good rugby brain on him, but along with several other posters on here I wonder at the efficacy of having the Team Captain so far away from the action.

I'd like to see Hanigan, Korczyk, or Sandell awarded a C after their name, or at least VC to save face from having to sack the Captain.

 

[I like to watch]

If he never tries
10 Duncan P
12 Sione T
13 Campbell M

No one will ever know he made a blue from the outset.
But he did.
IMO