Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

[fatprop]

The only think we really learnt about Cooper on the weekend, is that he isn't a 12. Better to learn now I guess.

To me that says he starts only, there are more flexible bench options

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think Hooper is guilty but he struck at a player who was infringing against him.

Didn't Horwill get one week for a strike on a player in the ruck?

Hooper also has a completely clean record.

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I really hope the ARU have a video that shows there was no hit, or that it was minimal, and that MH subsequently is cleared to play in two weeks time. But MH is no saint. Recall some problems not so long ago concerning road signs being destroyed.

 

[emuarse]

Assumes it was a fist versus open hand. Argies rolled around like they were shot at slightest touch.

If the camera fails to show weather its a fist or an open hand, then the player must get the benefit of the doubt.
As said earlier, the Argies proved they went to acting school prior to this game in their evaggerated falls.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Matt To'omua must now be in doubt for the first test against the ABs. As others have noted, Quade doesn't look to be a good option at 12, and Matt Giteau was really ho hum against the Saffas. Time now to bring a real 12 back into the fold. Christian Lealiifano to start. When To'omua comes back, CLL would be the best bench option to cover 10, 12. He also runs to the line, can straighten the attack and can also break the defensive line, probably even a little bit better than Matt To'omua in this last respect. Importantly, he also hits hard in defense.

Actually, my preference would be To'omua at 10 and Lealiifano at 12 to start. But that could just be my biases showing. Although, there are a lot of doubts being expressed in places like these threads about the current form and abilities of Foley, Quade et al.

 

[Train Without a Station]

TahDan here's a couple.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/20/spiro-wallaby-captain-moore-cheika-mates-coach-springboks/

The Quade Cooper experiment as the leader of the Wallabies to their Holy Grail of a triumph in the 2015 Rugby World Cup tournament is over.

Tony, the owner of the Queens Park deli and maker of terrific coffee, said something very true when we discussed the Test on Sunday morning. “The trouble with Quade Cooper is that he doesn’t like contact.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/24/why-michael-cheika-has-the-total-respect-of-the-wallabies/

One thing for sure, the inclusion of Foley in the starting line-up and Beale off the bench will dramatically improve the goal-kicking that Cooper and Giteau showed against the Boks.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/1...heika-should-start-against-the-boks-but-wont/

Coming to the backs, I would keep the Nic Phipps and Bernard Foley combination in the halves. The alternative, which the rugby writers are hinting at, of Will Genia and Quade Cooper is not robust enough for my liking.

Foley, also, is a better goal-kicker under pressure than Cooper. As Dan Carter showed for the All Blacks against Manu Samoa, picking up 20 points and missing only one shot at goal, accurate goal-kicking is the key to winning big matches.
Phipps and Foley are much better defenders and far more likely to make breaks against a tough defensive line than Cooper (now basically a passing No. 10) and Genia, with his injured shoulder.

I've chosen these three recent ones as examples where he is incorrectly criticized for being inferior. Any criticism of actual facts that are flaws in his game are more than fair.
This is the article the tweet was in response to by the way.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/chris-rattue/news/article.cfm?a_id=22&objectid=11483633

Cooper is as crazy as ever and will lose more games than he wins for the Wallabies

Funny thing to say about a player who has won more games than he's lost as a wallaby.

But ... Cooper still doesn't have a head for tests. Even an easy kick at goal went so wide it was actually funny. For every rabbit Cooper can pull out of a hat - he helped create a try to Adam Ashley-Cooper - there's a truck load of missing bunnies.

Is this referring to the 47m penalty attempt?

It's hard to work out how Australia won this game

Nice objective analysis.

 

[TahDan]

I think this was the offending Ratpoo article (snippets thereof):

Go on Michael Cheika. Dare you. Keep picking Quade Cooper as the Wallabies' World Cup lynchpin.​

​

Cooper is as crazy as ever and will lose more games than he wins for the Wallabies.​

​

Coach Cheika is playing with fire in World Cup year, relying on the nutty No10 to guide the ship.​

​

... Cooper still doesn't have a head for tests. Even an easy kick at goal went so wide it was actually funny. For every rabbit Cooper can pull out of a hat - he helped create a try to Adam Ashley-Cooper - there's a truck load of missing bunnies.​

​

... Pocock got it bang-on though. The Aussies must review this game as if they lost and there's an easy way for Cheika to do that, by imagining the loopy Cooper pass led to a Springboks try.​

​

There are reports that Cooper is about to re-sign with the ARU until 2019. If so, we get the last laugh on the famous George Gregan line. Four More Years, Australia.​

​

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11483633​

​

Cooper was probably better to bush it off. Instead he signed off using "zero f**ks", etc.

Cheika has moved on. So I think we can too (although I don't expect this to happen)

lol OK - that's very provocative, but also kinda funny. The "missing bunnies" line is pure gold.

Don't know why Quade is bothering to read the NZ herald though.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The only think we really learnt about Cooper on the weekend, is that he isn't a 12. Better to learn now I guess.

To me that says he starts only, there are more flexible bench options

Really? I thought we knew that before the game.

If Foley doesn't start I think he should be a bench option. He is a good flexible option capable of making an impact.

 

[kiap]

lol OK - that's very provocative, but also kinda funny. The "missing bunnies" line is pure gold.

Don't know why Quade is bothering to read the NZ herald though.

Rattue has put a bit of craft into it, you could say.

Quade is a Maori Aussie which means he is also a Kiwi. His family lives in the Bay of Plenty or somesuch (dunno, somewhere thereabouts). So he's gonna hear of this story.

 

[TahDan]

TahDan here's a couple.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/20/spiro-wallaby-captain-moore-cheika-mates-coach-springboks/





http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/24/why-michael-cheika-has-the-total-respect-of-the-wallabies/



http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/1...heika-should-start-against-the-boks-but-wont/


I've chosen these three recent ones as examples where he is incorrectly criticized for being inferior. Any criticism of actual facts that are flaws in his game are more than fair.
This is the article the tweet was in response to by the way.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/chris-rattue/news/article.cfm?a_id=22&objectid=11483633

Funny thing to say about a player who has won more games than he's lost as a wallaby.

Is this referring to the 47m penalty attempt?

Nice objective analysis.

So basically the roar and the NZ media... no offence, but that's not exactly the pillorying by the "Aussie media" that has been painted by some here.

The SMH and the Aus are examples of the Australian media - the Roar is a blog and the NZ herald isn't supposed to even try to be supportive of any of our players.

Spiro isn't a fan clearly, but that comment about him not liking contact appears pretty accurate when you watch him play in comparison to harder hitting play makers like To'omua.

The comments about Foley's goal kicking were proven off on the game, but then Foley won a Rugby Championship last year by taking high pressure kicks and was solid this year for the Tahs (if down on last year's stats), so it wasn't an unfair assumption.

 

[fatprop]

Really? I thought we knew that before the game.

Did we, OK ...............................

If Foley doesn't start I think he should be a bench option. He is a good flexible option capable of making an impact.

Looks to me that Foley starts, Coopers playing is not at the standard it needs to be at the moment.

If he was kicking goals from everywhere, there would be more of a case for him, but he isn't, so he doesn't.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think this was the offending Ratpoo article (snippets thereof):

Go on Michael Cheika. Dare you. Keep picking Quade Cooper as the Wallabies' World Cup lynchpin.​

​

Cooper is as crazy as ever and will lose more games than he wins for the Wallabies.​

​

Coach Cheika is playing with fire in World Cup year, relying on the nutty No10 to guide the ship.​

​

... Cooper still doesn't have a head for tests. Even an easy kick at goal went so wide it was actually funny. For every rabbit Cooper can pull out of a hat - he helped create a try to Adam Ashley-Cooper - there's a truck load of missing bunnies.​

​

... Pocock got it bang-on though. The Aussies must review this game as if they lost and there's an easy way for Cheika to do that, by imagining the loopy Cooper pass led to a Springboks try.​

​

There are reports that Cooper is about to re-sign with the ARU until 2019. If so, we get the last laugh on the famous George Gregan line. Four More Years, Australia.​

​

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11483633​

​

Cooper was probably better to bush it off. Instead he signed off using "zero f**ks", etc.

Cheika has moved on. So I think we can too (although I don't expect this to happen)

Strange article: why would a NZ journo be warning us about picking Cooper - almost makes me think he should be first picked.
Nah - that thought passed

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Don't know why Quade is bothering to read the NZ herald though.

Cos he's actually a kiwi by birth?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Spiro isn't a fan clearly, but that comment about him not liking contact appears pretty accurate when you watch him play in comparison to harder hitting play makers like To'omua.

There was passage in sunday morning's game when he got the ball to the left of the ruck/maul and had not real options. Instead of going into contact perhaps even angling back into the last ruck/maul he tried to double around the back as if he was back in under 12's.
To me that summed up just how little he likes contact and I think thats not an option for an Aussie 5/8 - maybe NZ/SA/Eng but not us - we just don't play that way.

 

[TahDan]

Cos he's actually a kiwi by birth?

Yeah, but he also knows they hate his guts. A little like Shorten deciding to tune into Ray Hadley every morning surely.


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[The_Brown_Hornet]

Rattue's got all sorts of form for being a troll. I don't know why any player would ever give his opinion the time of day.

 

[KOB1987]

Hooper's hearing is at 5pm on Wednesday. I've had another look at it on slow-mo and from the blurry vision we can see it looks more like a push in the back than a punch. Hopefully the footage the ARU have is much clearer and verifies this. He was being clearly held back by Sanchez so he had every right to try to free himself.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Really? Looked like contact with a straightening arm, albeit feeble and ineffectual. Striking is striking, whether it's weak-ass or not. Can you tell the difference? But I do feel sorry for Sanchez, who clearly had an ongoing concussion affecting his judgement after being shot by a sniper just as he ran into Pocock in the first half. I mean, how unlucky is the guy?
I have no problem with Hooper being sanctioned, just the consistency, as ever, with SANZAR.

Don't forget the other near death experience he had after Folau assaulted him in the air in goal early in the first half.

This bloke has more lives than a cat and he appears to have used three of them up in this game .

 

[#1 Tah]

Actually, my preference would be To'omua at 10 and Lealiifano at 12 to start. But that could just be my biases showing. Although, there are a lot of doubts being expressed in places like these threads about the current form and abilities of Foley, Quade et al.

I think you'll find Beale will get a shot at 12 before Lilo. Beale was selected in the original squad while Lilo was brought in after Gits injured his sternum.

 

[A mutterer]

well, quade certainly didn't prove that 'journo' wrong with his tweet did he?

 

[No4918]

well, quade certainly didn't prove that 'journo' wrong with his tweet did he?

Maybe that was the intention? It seemed very odd.

Before the Brisbane test some people have suggested folk should get over the Beale incidents. Now we some people continue to hold massive grudges against Cooper and won't hear a good word about him. Might be time for both camps to move on and channel all there aggression to players that really deserve it like that Kenny-Dowell guy and JOC (James O'Connor).