The League Media

[kandos]

I'm surprised and disappointed that Burgess left and didn't stick with it at Bath.

Press unfair - in some cases yes, but in general no. There was a big furore when he was selected, which is fair enough, but some other stuff wasn't. David Walsh (mainly a cycling journo) in the Sunset Times did a hatchet job on Burgess by using 'selective' comments of D'Arcy re the Wales debacle. Stephen Jones always does his best to do down League converts despite the fact that the press, in general, certainly didn't vote him as England's worst player or even centre. That vote went to Brad Barritt. There were a couple of pieces on the BBC website that shows how far the BBC has sunk.

I don't read the Twittersphere or the comments sections of newspaper articles because it reflects all the divisions of the two codes and consequent hatred. Ridiculous.

I've said it many times before, the two codes started out under exactly the same rules in 1895, but they have never been so far apart. Union's a far more technical game as Joel Tomkins wrote when he went back to League. The only mutually 'easy' positions are wingers in my opinion. Milner-Skudder was a success for the AB's but was on the Bulldogs roster. Lomu started in League along with quite a few others. Thereafter, it becomes progressively more difficult.

 

[kandos]

...

It has always fascinated me that their best post-war rugby achievement, the 2003 RWC, was led by a captain who played in New Zealand as a young man, and coached by a chap who played club rugby in Sydney (for Manly) for five years.

But, who can forget some of the fabulous teams that the Northern code turned out in the fifties and sixties, with players like Ashton, Murphy, McTigue, and Karalius?

Martin Johnson was a totally uncompromising player like Colin Meads and I believe that England wouldn't have won in 2003 without him.

Those great players you mentioned don't exist anymore in League since they dumbed down the rules. You don't get ball playing forwards like McTigue or Beetson anymore. Never seen a player like Alex Murphy. He was a wow in Union as well when he did his National Service. The groundsman at Twickenham when asked, after 30 years service, who was the best player he had seen play at that venue, immediately said Murphy.

 

[wamberal]

Good post, Kandos.


It's not just the dumbing down of the rules, it also has a lot to do with the risk-averse nature of the game here in Oz.


There are still some skillful players, from what little I see of the game, but they are invariably in the backs. The forwards are all one trick ponies.

 

[Brumby Jack]

I thought this headline on the telly tonight was a bit over the top

 

[Lindommer]

Modern rugby league is rapidly following American football where everything is determined by coaches who draw up pre-ordained plays after consulting the statisticians. "Completed tackle count", "plays down opponents' weak left side", "metres gained 40/20 kicks on fifth tackle", etc. I see very little imagination by skilful players who are prepared to do something different after sizing up a situation and taking the initiative. What about trying a 40/20 early in the tackle count when all the opposing players are up in the defensive line? But the biggest trend in modern rugby league is the elimination of anything risky, a la NFL. Just last year there was a seminar on modern RL trends, they were concerned about the falling number of passes per match. Can't have passes, someone might drop the ball! Passes used to be commonplace in American football (there's still the odd pass in college football) but it's been eliminated as it was deemed too risky.

I must admit my head starts to spin when Phil Gould waxes eloquent about a brilliant bit of play where blokes standing around (I still can't tell backs and forwards apart in RL, other than scrums) perform some chess-like strategy. I just don't see it. That last Cowboys try in the GF looked suspiciously like the defenders couldn't count. And there're fewer of them to count than in rugby.....

 

[Pfitzy]

Modern rugby league is rapidly following American football where everything is determined by coaches who draw up pre-ordained plays after consulting the statisticians. "Completed tackle count", "plays down opponents' weak left side", "metres gained 40/20 kicks on fifth tackle", etc.

Have a look at this - the Ipswich Jets (being coached by former league players Ben and Shane Walker) have upset everyone in their competition in QLD by playing a fast, continuity game much like - well, like rugby 7s, really.

They've thrown those stats away and the results are unsurprising, really. The only stat that matters is having more points on the board at the end of the game. When you do something different in the land of the clones, you're bound to stand out.

Note particularly on some plays their opponents just look exhausted - they've firstly got no idea how to stop an attack that doesn't play by their rules, and secondly they're just not fit enough to chase shadows once they decide to do something about it.

It also helps that the Jets back three look smaller, faster, and fitter than some of the hulks they're up against, and have a bit of Fijian/ATSI talent in there playing with joie de vivre (and probably not a little rugby union experience )

 

[Highlander35]

Who knew that changing the point of the attack would open up more gaps and hence metres and scores?

Who knew that introducing short kickoffs would mean that not only can you get possession back off your own kicks, it means when you kick longer, there's more chance of it hitting grass?

 

[dru]

I'll be sticking with rugby.

Still, it wouldn't surprise me to see League gradually morph toward NFL. God knows it isn't morphing toward rugby.

 

[redstragic]

League's its own game, I enjoy watching both. Rugby evolves and goes through times when negative game plans win more often, same with League, the administrators address this by tinkering with the rules to create a bigger spectacle. I don't understand NFL much, but can't see how league can morph into it.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Modern rugby league is rapidly following American football where everything is determined by coaches who draw up pre-ordained plays after consulting the statisticians. "Completed tackle count", "plays down opponents' weak left side", "metres gained 40/20 kicks on fifth tackle", etc. I see very little imagination by skilful players who are prepared to do something different after sizing up a situation and taking the initiative. [.....]

Recently came across a podcast in my twitter feed called The Rugby Coach's Corner. It's hosted by an Aussie living/teaching/coaching in Canada, Andy Plimer. In the first episode he talks about how he grew up playing league, but the first time he played union in university he was hooked. Says after playing in very structured and scripted league for 10 years and then going into union, a game that's "extremely dynamic and extremely unpredictable," he was hooked.

The web page is here, if anyone's interested.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Have a look at this - the Ipswich Jets (being coached by former league players Ben and Shane Walker) have upset everyone in their competition in QLD by playing a fast, continuity game much like - well, like rugby 7s, really.

Cheers. I'd heard a lot about the Jets this season, but hadn't had a chance to see how they played. A lot of that just looked like good heads-up running rugby, no matter what the code.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Modern rugby league is rapidly following American football where everything is determined by coaches who draw up pre-ordained plays after consulting the statisticians. "Completed tackle count", "plays down opponents' weak left side", "metres gained 40/20 kicks on fifth tackle", etc. I see very little imagination by skilful players who are prepared to do something different after sizing up a situation and taking the initiative.

I watched the ENG-NZ league Test shortly after watching Northampton-Saracens, and was a little taken aback at how similar the two games were, at least in style. Both teams in both games were primarily looking for contact before space, rarely running through a gap when they could run over someone, fairly start-stop until you got within 20 meters of the try line, and then upping the tempo a little bit, both favoring defense over a rather conservative attack. Neither game was very engaging, and it just surprised me how they were both un-engaging in similar ways.

But that's probably why any developments in northern hemisphere rugby won't be coming out of the Premiership.

 

[wamberal]

Gee, you are a glutton for punishment!!

 

[mxyzptlk]

Gee, you are a glutton for punishment!!

Ask my wife.

 

[wamberal]

Ask my wife.

I used to be able to watch just about any sport on tv, probably because I grew up in an era when there was virtually none. Plus I lived in Asia for about 15 years. Radio Australia was about all I had, and they virtually ignored everthing except Australian Rules.

 

[RunnerGunner]

Modern rugby league is rapidly following American football where everything is determined by coaches who draw up pre-ordained plays after consulting the statisticians. "Completed tackle count", "plays down opponents' weak left side", "metres gained 40/20 kicks on fifth tackle", etc. I see very little imagination by skilful players who are prepared to do something different after sizing up a situation and taking the initiative. What about trying a 40/20 early in the tackle count when all the opposing players are up in the defensive line? But the biggest trend in modern rugby league is the elimination of anything risky, a la NFL. Just last year there was a seminar on modern RL trends, they were concerned about the falling number of passes per match. Can't have passes, someone might drop the ball! Passes used to be commonplace in American football (there's still the odd pass in college football) but it's been eliminated as it was deemed too risky.

I must admit my head starts to spin when Phil Gould waxes eloquent about a brilliant bit of play where blokes standing around (I still can't tell backs and forwards apart in RL, other than scrums) perform some chess-like strategy. I just don't see it. That last Cowboys try in the GF looked suspiciously like the defenders couldn't count. And there're fewer of them to count than in rugby...

Umm, where did you get the idea that passing has decreased in American Football? It has increased exponentially in the last 25 years. The running back used to be the star on many teams, now they aren't even drafted in the 1st round in many cases.

Are you talking about what they might call pitches?

I agree on the monotony in rugby league. Except the last tackle near the line of course which is roll the dice shite.

 

[MarkJ]

I'm assuming he meant 'laterals' rather than standard forward passes

 

[Blue]

it wouldn't surprise me to see League gradually morph toward NFL.

I don't know what this means.

I have followed NFL for 25 years and I have played it. As much morphing as League could ever do I fail to see how it could in any shape or form resemble the NFL, for many reasons. In fact the very notion I find laughable but it doesn't top league hacks making up stories about it.

One such reason? The NFL is highly, highly technical and complex. League? It's fucking stupid beyond description. It's like a blunt instrument. What can you do with a blunt instrument? Bludgeon stuff. Okay, threaten a little from time to time and then bludgeon anyway.

There is one comparison point and one only and that is that you are guaranteed the ball for a certain number of plays. That is also where similarities end with the NFL.

 

[Blue]

Umm, where did you get the idea that passing has decreased in American Football? It has increased exponentially in the last 25 years. The running back used to be the star on many teams, now they aren't even drafted in the 1st round in many cases.

Correct. For the simple reason that every year, the QB gets more protection.

A number of the top RB's in the league at the moment didn't even come through the draft.

 

[papabear]

I don't know what this means.

I have followed NFL for 25 years and I have played it. As much morphing as League could ever do I fail to see how it could in any shape or form resemble the NFL, for many reasons. In fact the very notion I find laughable but it doesn't top league hacks making up stories about it.

One such reason? The NFL is highly, highly technical and complex. League? It's fucking stupid beyond description. It's like a blunt instrument. What can you do with a blunt instrument? Bludgeon stuff. Okay, threaten a little from time to time and then bludgeon anyway.

There is one comparison point and one only and that is that you are guaranteed the ball for a certain number of plays. That is also where similarities end with the NFL.

The above is a good example of how poor the quality of arguments are becoming in this thread.

Or perhaps how this thread has always been.

Person A (this person likes union, doesn't like league or NFL) - Says RL is boring it is becoming like NFL (which he also believes is boring)

Person B (This person doesn't like league but likes union and NFL) - Disagrees, from his perspective league is nothing like NFL.

Now the arguments about structure. All modern sporting teams analyse opponents weaknesses using stats and attack the oppositions weakest points and try to cover up their own weaknesses.

A rugby union team that cant run very fast, can't catch or pass, will not try and get around or through a team but simply over the top.

Same with a rugby league team.

Same with an NFL team.

For the record in my opinion rugby league isn't stupid beyond description. It is a game with simple rules but that doesn't make it stupid. IMO that's opens the game up a bit more allowing for more creativity from the players themselves (obviously whether they choose to use that creativity is up to them).

For example other games with relatively simple rules.
- soccer
- golf
- basketball
- chess
- tennis

The list goes on and on and on.

(you can edit the next bit, but honestly the point needs to be made)

Without generalising if you think you are better then the people around you, if you believe you come from a social class above your fellow men, if you enjoy killing another blokes chicken, or making another man eat pooo off your shoe because hes a bit different from you (or in your own min below you), then obviously rugby league is not the game for you.