Rebels 2016

[mst]

What are you talking about?

He played age level reps from under 13s and then played South African Schoolboys. As do many SA school boys, This is not unusual nor exceptional.

He played three Junior World Cup Tournaments before winning World Rugby Junior Player of the Year in his third one. He's surely one of the most decorated junior rugby players in South African history. In the 2013 tournament he played mostly at inside centre and had a fairly average tournament which included having kicking issues.

What 8+ injuries are you talking about that forced their hand?

Pollard debuted for the Springboks within 2 weeks of the JRWC. I remember, because it was against us on a non - international weekend, with about 8-10 domestic starters injured. Horrible horrible day, took the shine off the previous weeks win against the Argies.

My point was that amongst this list of players, none have been close to as good as the likes of Handre Pollard, George Ford, Damian McKenzie, Joe Ford, Otere Black etc. who have come through the under 20s and excelled in recent years. Beyond McIntyre who has been tested at Super Rugby level so how do you form this judgement? Also only two of those names have been tested in Super Rugby.

All of our good young playmaking options are being given chances to various degrees.

Surely the low risk option would be selecting the experienced guys out of club rugby who can lead a team round the park but certainly don't have a high ceiling and will never bring particular success to a team.

If you are so adamant that I have your argument wrong, can you please suggest a few players who you think teams should be giving more of a crack at 10 and why they are better options?

I am not here to validate your self esteem and argue semantics which are off topic, rather to discuss the options the Rebels have around JD and potential options to improve the performance of the team.

Aside from going back and looking at the names some others have already provided specifically for the Rebels in this discussion, you need to probably ask your question in a more relevant thread.

 

[mst]

most and Braveheart perhaps you two can start your own thread.


at the moment JD is really all the Rebels have, Hawkins might be OK, but at present Jack is worth persisting with. He is really missing Mike Harris to help with the play making role because Inman is a one trick pony, (pretty good trick albeit), Ellison is doing his stuff wider off the ruck and Placid is greener than Debrezcini.

there are no real standout 10's in Victorian club rugby, Lloyd J has been piloting the the premiership side around. I don't know about interstate but Sam Lane is about the only person who might be considered. Others in Shute Shield or Hospital cup would surely have gotten a gig elsewhere if any good. Hawkins and Asquith are the others at the Rebels, but both are new to the set up, one has played 3 games at Super level and the other none. The rebels simply have to persist with JD for this season at least. Only in NZ do fully formed fly halfs spring from the undergrowth.

I was wondering if results are still not great come the back end of the season, it would be worth shifting JD to inside centre and put in a Lloyd J and see if that combination would work, My concern would be is if JD would be willing to take more contact and carry a little more or if I am off on a tangent. I just see JD a good, but not good enough for flyhalf - it doesn't seem natural to him.

 

[swingpass]

without being privy to what is being asked of him by TT and Crowley, it is actually possible that the higher powers have told him not to run so much, to be more conservative with his touch kicking, etc etc.

as i said above i really think he is struggling with the "playmaker" aspects of his role and that's affecting his game. that being said, he really does need to concentrate more, especially kicking for touch and at goal, needs to vastly improve his passing, which at times is woeful and learn to boss is team around more. i don't think he is a centre but if not at 10 then at fullback.

 

[Highlander35]

Jack v Jacks theoretical replacement is tired. More importantly I think is that with Ellison and probably Harris moving on, restructuring the 11-15 probably becomes appropriate, and would likely help solve that issue.

For mine, Hodge in 12, only starting one of Dom and Engo (we need variety in wingers), Sefa at either outside centre or wing and a new fullback would be ideal. I'd prefer to think beyond Inman too. We all love him as a clubman, and appreciate his partnership with Ellison, but he's a little 1 dimensional as we all know. I'd like it to be Sefa at 13, but if he's preferred out wide, develop Tuipolotu instead.

 

[mst]

without being privy to what is being asked of him by TT and Crowley, it is actually possible that the higher powers have told him not to run so much, to be more conservative with his touch kicking, etc etc.

as i said above i really think he is struggling with the "playmaker" aspects of his role and that's affecting his game. that being said, he really does need to concentrate more, especially kicking for touch and at goal, needs to vastly improve his passing, which at times is woeful and learn to boss is team around more. i don't think he is a centre but if not at 10 then at fullback.

I think it is what I am trying to get my head around, thus my questions to gets some better insight and viewpoints, Game plan etc to one side, I can see JD has talent, but there are some basic skills he need to improve. Its where he fits best is what I am wondering about and 15 could be a good option. I am also wondering what happens when Ellison goes and how that will effect the backline.

 

[mst]

Jack v Jacks theoretical replacement is tired. More importantly I think is that with Ellison and probably Harris moving on, restructuring the 11-15 probably becomes appropriate, and would likely help solve that issue.

For mine, Hodge in 12, only starting one of Dom and Engo (we need variety in wingers), Sefa at either outside centre or wing and a new fullback would be ideal. I'd prefer to think beyond Inman too. We all love him as a clubman, and appreciate his partnership with Ellison, but he's a little 1 dimensional as we all know. I'd like it to be Sefa at 13, but if he's preferred out wide, develop Tuipolotu instead.

Maybe its tired, but if you combine your and Swingpass ideas with JD at 15, a raw 10 may work as having other play makers like a JD and (possibly) Hodge would take the pressure off and give it time to develop.

So hypothetically, a Lloyd J at 10 doing the basic steering and JD and Hodge to add spark could be worth considering?

 

[Dumbledore]

I was wondering if results are still not great come the back end of the season, it would be worth shifting JD to inside centre and put in a Lloyd J and see if that combination would work, My concern would be is if JD would be willing to take more contact and carry a little more or if I am off on a tangent. I just see JD a good, but not good enough for flyhalf - it doesn't seem natural to him.

What do the Rebels gain by parachuting a fat journeyman in? He won't be better than Debreczeni in the present, and you're compromising the future at the same time. It's a lose/lose move.

If Debreczeni is really struggling then they'll shift Hawkins or Harris into flyhalf and Debreczeni can sit on the bench until NRC time.

 

[Dumbledore]

Jack v Jacks theoretical replacement is tired. More importantly I think is that with Ellison and probably Harris moving on, restructuring the 11-15 probably becomes appropriate, and would likely help solve that issue.

For mine, Hodge in 12, only starting one of Dom and Engo (we need variety in wingers), Sefa at either outside centre or wing and a new fullback would be ideal. I'd prefer to think beyond Inman too. We all love him as a clubman, and appreciate his partnership with Ellison, but he's a little 1 dimensional as we all know. I'd like it to be Sefa at 13, but if he's preferred out wide, develop Tuipolotu instead.

That's about where my thinking is at as well. The team needs some pace, they need another ballplayer, and they need a second, and even a third, kicking option.

 

[swingpass]

Tuipolutu and Naivanu would be a good centre pairing imo, Sione has very very good ball skills and can tackle, we all hope that Sefa comes back to his best, but it's taking a very long time from that injury. long term Placid may be the goods but still has a LOT to learn

 

[GoMelbRebels]

most and Braveheart perhaps you two can start your own thread.


at the moment JD is really all the Rebels have, Hawkins might be OK, but at present Jack is worth persisting with. He is really missing Mike Harris to help with the play making role because Inman is a one trick pony, (pretty good trick albeit), Ellison is doing his stuff wider off the ruck and Placid is greener than Debrezcini.

there are no real standout 10's in Victorian club rugby, Lloyd J has been piloting the the premiership side around. I don't know about interstate but Sam Lane is about the only person who might be considered. Others in Shute Shield or Hospital cup would surely have gotten a gig elsewhere if any good. Hawkins and Asquith are the others at the Rebels, but both are new to the set up, one has played 3 games at Super level and the other none. The rebels simply have to persist with JD for this season at least. Only in NZ do fully formed fly halfs spring from the undergrowth.

It's a shame Bryce "Crumb" Hegarty left. He wasn't flash at 10, but I think him being there, breathing down JD's neck pushed him to play better.

 

[mst]

What do the Rebels gain by parachuting a fat journeyman in? He won't be better than Debreczeni in the present, and you're compromising the future at the same time. It's a lose/lose move.

If Debreczeni is really struggling then they'll shift Hawkins or Harris into flyhalf and Debreczeni can sit on the bench until NRC time.

How is Hawkins looking as a prospect? There a few local names that know little about (yep - Lloyd J is one of them ) - are there any others on the radar with potential?

I am also thinking post Harris options.

I also agree with your ITM JD idea but to do it you risk a Michael Alaalato issue where they have to go with out the ARU's blessing and are up for grabs.

 

[swingpass]

Llyod J is Lloyd Johannson, Wallaby number 801, scored a try v AB's with first touch of the ball and also infamous for possibly worlds best/worts coat hanger on Stirling Mortlock.

 

[swingpass]

It's a shame Bryce "Crumb" Hegarty left. He wasn't flash at 10, but I think him being there, breathing down JD's neck pushed him to play better.

yes one of two egregious decisions made by the Rebs, the other being letting Veainu go.

 

[mst]

Llyod J is Lloyd Johannson, Wallaby number 801, scored a try v AB's with first touch of the ball and also infamous for possibly worlds best/worts coat hanger on Stirling Mortlock.

(insert penny dropping noise - that Lloyd J) I will start the walkaway of shame now......

 

[Highlander35]

Yeah. Can I also assume you didn't know who Ruaridh Jackson was and assumed he was some Australian Youngster rather than 28 year old 30ish capped Scottish Fly Half and Fullback, currently out of contract with Wasps and unlikely to be re-signed due to the signing of Danny Cipriani?

 

[Dumbledore]

Tuipolutu and Naivanu would be a good centre pairing imo, Sione has very very good ball skills and can tackle, we all hope that Sefa comes back to his best, but it's taking a very long time from that injury. long term Placid may be the goods but still has a LOT to learn

That's a fun pairing. Tuipolutu's going to have to get either bigger or stronger to play 12 though, was getting bossed at the breakdown. And in fairness to Inman, who's been copping it a bit, he's basically an extra flanker there - regularly gets through just as much work as McMahon and Reid.

Obviously more needs to be done to support Debreczeni, and to get the attack going, but what's the cost going to be?

 

[mst]

Yeah. Can I also assume you didn't know who Ruaridh Jackson was and assumed he was some Australian Youngster rather than 28 year old 30ish capped Scottish Fly Half and Fullback, currently out of contract with Wasps and unlikely to be re-signed due to the signing of Danny Cipriani?

Its why I ask questions! I did have a google and was unsure if I was reading about the right one.

Is there any potential flyhalf home grown talent down there?

 

[swingpass]

i love Inman (not as mach as Daz) but think he has reached a peak. Clearly TT is besotted by big units, winning the collisions. But you don't have to be big to be a good tackler or smart in defence (witness Ellison and Giteau at the RWC), and if you have sufficient skills the player can avoid the collision. I suspect Hodge will be the next 12, but who plays outside him will be a guess.

 

[swingpass]

Is there any potential flyhalf home grown talent down there?

me, but i retired about 30 years ago and might have lost a yard or two of pace.

 

[Highlander35]

Having sarcastically suggested him, I must say that Ruaridh would be a good Hagan-like signing. A bit more expensive, but nonetheless, would work as a Harris replacement if all the pieces fell into place.