2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

[The sage]

Double for the Paddies as the seniors had a brilliant win over SA


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[Bardon]

It's really been a fantastic day for Irish rugby. Just finished my write up of the South Africa test.

U-20s were excellent today and in their comeback win against Wales. The challenge will be making sure their a pathway for these guys to the senior squad. It's something we've been poor at in the past.

 

[ACR]

Ireland forwards were superb. Really confrontational and physical. Tough conditions for running rugby.

Well done junior Paddies.

Yeah they played well.

But could they do it on a warm dry night in Hamilton?

NZ will be competing with South Africa for the 4th semi spot.

 

[Forcefield]

Will you? No guarantee that you'll beat Wales and France respectively. We mightsneak a win over England, too, to add to the mix.

 

[Braveheart81]

So Australia needs to beat England with a 4 try bonus point and deny England a bonus point to make the semi-finals. Will be a tough ask.

 

[Silverado]

Tough indeed. Urgent attention required on our set pieces if we're any chance. Our boys struggled in the conditions which England obviously are used to. The performance so far of 6 nations teams show the benefits of playing a proper tournament prior to the World Cup. They are more cohesive than the Southern Hemisphere sides. They also have time to tweak their teams by seeing how players perform under pressure. Any chance of a under 20s Rugby Championship or Tri Nations? I know cost and logistics would be a problem, but we look under done after the junior Blacks games (which helps) and a couple of blowouts against mediocre teams (which isn't ideal). Still we are in with a chance. Good luck to the boys


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[Hawko]

So Australia needs to beat England with a 4 try bonus point and deny England a bonus point to make the semi-finals. Will be a tough ask.

I think we can still make it in 4th place if we beat England, but only if other results in the other two pools go our way.

 

[Forcefield]

So Australia needs to beat England with a 4 try bonus point and deny England a bonus point to make the semi-finals. Will be a tough ask.

How do you get that? Whether England gets a BP or not is irrelevant, we could qualify as the 4th team. But that would take, ideally, NZ beating Wales without a BP or Wales winning without a BP and France beating RSA or RSA winning without a BP.

And surely two teams tied on pool points are separated by their head to head rather than points difference, as per usual with World Rugby tournaments. So if we picked up 5 points v England, its okay if they get one BP.

I might be clutching at straws a bit given our performances so far.

 

[Braveheart81]

How do you get that? Whether England gets a BP or not is irrelevant, we could qualify as the 4th team. But that would take, ideally, NZ beating Wales without a BP or Wales winning without a BP and France beating RSA or RSA winning without a BP.

And surely two teams tied on pool points are separated by their head to head rather than points difference, as per usual with World Rugby tournaments. So if we picked up 5 points v England, its okay if they get one BP.

I might be clutching at straws a bit given our performances so far.

I'm not sure actually.

Beating England and ending up on the same points as them is probably enough actually. I was thinking that they'd be ahead of us on points differential but generally the first tie break method is head to head.

On that basis I'll say that if we beat England and deny them a bonus point then we will (probably) top our group and go through to the semi finals.

If we aren't top of our group though it will be almost impossible to go through because unless Ireland lose to George or NZ lose to Wales they will both be ahead of us on for and against.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

World Rugby U20 Championship 2016

NEW ZEALAND U20 55 - 0 GEORGIA U20, Pool A, Match 3
WALES U20 25 - 26 IRELAND U20, Pool A, Match 5
NEW ZEALAND U20 24 - 33 IRELAND U20, Pool A, Match 10
WALES U20 10 - 9 GEORGIA U20, Pool A, Match 11

AUSTRALIA U20 10 - 15 SCOTLAND U20, Pool B, Match 2
ENGLAND U20 48 - 10 ITALY U20, Pool B, Match 6
AUSTRALIA U20 38 - 10 ITALY U20, Pool B, Match 7
ENGLAND U20 44 - 0 SCOTLAND U20, Pool B, Match 12

FRANCE U20 15 - 24 ARGENTINA U20, Pool C, Match 1
SOUTH AFRICA U20 59 - 19 JAPAN U20, Pool C, Match 4
FRANCE U20 46 - 14 JAPAN U20, Pool C, Match 8
SOUTH AFRICA U20 13 - 19 ARGENTINA U20, Pool C, Match 9

Standings:
Pool A
Ireland 8 pts
New Zealand 6 pts
Wales 6 pts
Georgia 1 pts

Pool B
England 10 pts
Australia 6 pts
Scotland 4 pts
Italy 0 pts

Pool C
Argentina 8 pts
South Africa 6 pts
France 5 pts
Japan 0 pts


Pool Games To Come on Wed 15 June

IRELAND U20 v GEORGIA U20, Pool A, Match 17
NEW ZEALAND U20 v WALES U20, Pool A, Match 14

SCOTLAND U20 v ITALY U20, Pool B, Match 16
ENGLAND U20 44 - 0 AUSTRALIA U20, Pool B, Match 15

ARGENTINA U20 v JAPAN U20, Pool C, Match 13
SOUTH AFRICA U20 v FRANCE U20, Pool C, Match 18


Semi Finals on 20 June
Play offs on 25 June


Predicted standings after Pool Play

Pool A
Ireland 13 points (defeat Georgia with BP)
New Zealand 10 points (defeat Wales with no BP)
Wales 7 points (defeated by NZL but gain 1 BP)
Georgia 1 points (defeated by Ireland)

Pool B
England 15 points (defeat Australia with a BP)
Scotland 9 points (defeat Italy with a BP)
Australia 7 points (defeated by England but gain 1 BP)
Italy 0 points (defeated by Scotland)

Pool C
Argentina 13 points (defeat Japan with a BP)
South Africa 10 points (defeat France)
France 6 points (defeated by South Africa with a BP)
Japan 0 points (defeated by Argentina)

1-4 SF will be ENG, IRE, ARG and NZL
5-8 SF will be SCO, SAF, WAL and AUS
9-12 SF will be FRA, GEO, JAP, ITA

To upset the applecart, AUS will need to beat ENG with a BP, and not allow ENG to get a BP.
In this case Pool B is AUS 11, ENG, 10, SCO 9, ITA 0.
If ENG get a BP loss, then I think their superior F/A may get them ahead even though we may have beaten them and are on the same points. Could be wrong.

 

[Silverado]

^^^^
I agree with @Forcefield. As invoked at the under 20s curtain raiser comp, if 2 teams have same points, head to head is the


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[Silverado]

method of choosing who goes through rather than points differential in World Cup rules but it still looks like a bridge too far from here


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[Brumby Runner]

Good luck to our boys, and thanks for all the combinations and permutations. But on the form shown in the games so far, England would have to be favourites to beat us fairly easily. Still, things did look up once Lukan Tui and Rob Leota came on, so with the right selections, we might go a bit closer.

 

[The sage]

One thing that the discussion above shows (re format of the tournament) what DILL from the IRB decided this type of kiaotic system, only in Europe!!

Surely 4 groups of three; two games against each in your group, before quarter finals, semis finals then finals. Little easier for us mere morals to comprehend and a fair bit fairer for all teams.


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[Highlander35]

Nah. No byes is key, and 3 pools of 4 is the best way to do that. Albeit we should really be returning to the stage where we have a 16 team tournament, Samoa, Fiji, Spain and USA would not be off the standard of Georgia and Japan to the extent that it would devalue the tournament.

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely 4 groups of three; two games against each in your group, before quarter finals, semis finals then finals. Little easier for us mere morals to comprehend and a fair bit fairer for all teams.

Playing only two teams in your pool and playing them twice would be a bizarre tournament.


It would also take longer to play those pool games than the entire tournament runs for right now.

The current tournament runs for 19 days and involves playing a game every 4 days in the pool round and 5 days in the playoffs.

 

[I like to watch]

I think he meant that with pools of 3, everyone plays 2 pool games then QF's

 

[Highlander35]

Any sort of bye is nonsense. Worst bit of the World Cup. Need to campaign for a slightly longer tournament and expanding to 16 teams if you genuinely think you're hard done by the system.

 

[I like to watch]

If you win all your games,the format is irrelevant.
That's what we need to focus on,not pool numbers or byes etc.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the format is fine. It reflects the fact that there isn't the depth at this level to have 16 teams (and having teams 13-20 playing a secondary tournament probably serves them better overall).

It's just a tough tournament for fans because your team's chances of winning the whole thing can be crushed earlier than in a tournament with quarter finals.

The Women's World Cup has the same format.