France v Australia, Saturday 19 November

[Braveheart81]

Or get red carded and suspended. It's an even chance.

He wouldn't be the first hooker to cause a whole lot of regret.

Take Dylan Hartley for example.

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[Brumby Runner]

Jeezus check out some of these idiots backing Cheika up:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...l/news-story/327ee9a6c202b2b7a75097757c534234


Has the world gone mad??

Hard to disagree or find fault with anything Dwyer or McQueen have said in that article.

I think it is right to rest our main players for this test, and damn the result, although I hope that they all play to their potential and get the win. If they play well and lose, no skin off their noses or off Cheika's as it will have helped to settle some questions about individual's capabilities to rise to the next level. If they suffer a horrendous loss, which I don't expect, then it might just indicate that the structures weren't necessarily in place and that will no doubt become a subject of intense scrutiny afterwards.

It's not a bad looking side; lots of experience mixed with some newbies. Many of the selected players are test ready or proven. To tell the truth, I am more concerned about the results against Ireland and England and I think our chances in those matches are being enhanced by giving some of the high profile players a rest now.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not sure anyone is going to be released by their club for that, though it would be handy.

I thought there might have been a chance to have Houston released for the French and Irish tests (to be considered for the bench) so that he would be available for the Baa Baas side in between. Nothing happening on that front though, apparently.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think any rugby fan is aware of it. It has been mentioned a lot. I agree the concept of the "Home Unions" and a grand slam is anachronistic but it is still a thing.

I'd almost guarantee that if you're an Aussie rugby fan and you're not aware of the grand slam tour you're even less aware that there is a test on Sunday morning against France.

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Well, I'm aware that historically a British Isles tour by South Africa, New Zealand or Australia involved a test against each of the Home Nations and it was termed a "grand slam" when every test on the tour was won. It's also the case that such tours haven't taken place for at least 20 years - modern elite sport just doesn't allow a 3 month progress through Britain and Ireland.

I'm not even sure that such a thing as a "grand slam" even exists in the modern rugby concept. If on this tour we played the 4 home unions in consecutive weeks and won all four, that would be a considerable achievement. Could it be termed a "grand slam"? Maybe, maybe not. But when you throw in a tour where there are 5 tests, I can't see how for the life a me how winning 4 out of 5 could be considered a grand anything.

We're playing 5 tests, I want to win all 5. I want the best team available team picked, with the proviso that I have no particular problem with a degree of rotation across the five matches. i.e. a couple of changes in each match. Making 11 changes for one match isn't rotation - it's picking a B side. I can see no valid reason why this test against France should be rated any higher or lower than the other 4.

Momentum and combinations are priceless in elite level team sports. History is littered with examples of teams resting a large number of players for a match that isn't deemed important and then losing not just that match, but subsequent matches. (Cue Waratahs v Crusaders 2002).

As an aside, this is the only match of the tour which is being shown live at an hour when kids/families can watch it. 7am kick-off Sydney time. It would be a shame if it wasn't worth watching.

 

[amirite]

People need to realise, France named 5 changes too.

They played Samoa last week, so those 5 changes are generally players who're viewed as better, whereas our 11 are viewed as weaker by the coaches.

Still, new combinations are new combinations.

 

[TOCC]

As a result of the Arbib report into ARU Governance the veto powers of the NSW Bloc, and to a degree the QLD bloc, no longer shape ARU decision making.

While the ARU were quick to adopt the "new" model, many on here struggle to move with the times and any Wallaby/ARU anything is simply an opportunity to get the Tin Foil Hat and Pitchfork out, no matter what the issue is: Coach, assistant coach, game plan, selections, training polivy, S&C, Lineouts calling, boot sponsor, ability under the high ball, approval of business partner, membership package options, whatever.. . .

Haters gotta hate. It is somewhere in the Constitution, and if not, it's the vibe. That's it.

I say get over it.

Get behind the Men in Gold. It is the only National Rugby Team that we have. Shit happens. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" - Jagger, M, Richards, K. (1969) Let It Bleed, Decca Records.

Go you Good Things.

MC is not the Messiah. He might be a Naughty Boy, but he is our Naughty Boy, and we need to get behind him. When the next bloke gets the Wobs gig, we should get behind them regardless of the state they were born in, what school they went to, the club they played for, or Super Rugby club that may have been associated with.

The biggest anchor that Australian Rugby has when it comes to the Wallabies is the fan and their parochialism.

Mate, it's the passion of those who you consider an 'anchor' who actually keep the game in this country alive, fans having passions and an emotional investment is what sells jersey, fills stadiums and brings in sponsors.

Just because I, or anyone else on this forum criticises Cheikas selections or game plan doesn't mean we aren't patriotic or won't get up in the early hours of the morning to cheer them on.

Michael Cheika and the current Wallabies are the custodian of the Wallabies tradition, the Wallabies brand was around well before Cheika and the current players came along and will hang around for long after. There's certain expectations placed upon that position from fans and stakeholders alike.

 

[barbarian]

I think Nick got it right before - it's less about the 'Grand Slam' and more about England. The Grand Slam is a bit artificial and certainly doesn't carry a huge amount of weight anymore.

But beating the Poms always does, no matter the time, place or sport.
.

 

[Tangawizi]

I thought there might have been a chance to have Houston released for the French and Irish tests (to be considered for the bench) so that he would be available for the Baa Baas side in between. Nothing happening on that front though, apparently.

Pretty sure Leroy finished up with Bath at the end of October so no Wallabies squad involvement now was Cheika's call.

And he's been enjoying the beaches on the Gold Coast for the last couple of weeks by the look of his instagram.

 

[Scotty]

I have a sneaky suspicion that if the back row are absolutely fucking unbelievable,and QC (Quade Cooper) sets up 5 tries, Hooper will still be 7,and QC (Quade Cooper) still be 23 next week.

I guarantee that everyone except maybe Douglas, Fardy and a wing has zero chance of playing themselves into the starting line up next week.

Also possible that Genia will be moved to the bench.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

For all the talk about selections it's still a pretty good side. We've actually picked a pretty confrontational pack, I think, in full expectation of France throwing the kitchen sink at us in the tough stuff. Not too many shrinking violets there. I expect it to be brutal.

 

[Marcelo]

The big question is: Who's the fullback back-up if Morahan suffers an injury? Foley??? When it was the last time he played in that position at test level? Mmmmm. Naivalu, Speight and Taqele can't play at 15, they don't have the skills for the position.

 

[gel]

I think Nick got it right before - it's less about the 'Grand Slam' and more about England. The Grand Slam is a bit artificial and certainly doesn't carry a huge amount of weight anymore.

But beating the Poms always does, no matter the time, place or sport.
.

Win.
Every.
Test.

That simply has to be the mindset.

 

[KOB1987]

I think we should wait for hypotheticals like those to play out before we comment.

True, but in fairness that was in response to Reg having a rant about us losing to the French and then to the Irish, so similarly we should wait for that to happen before blowing a gasket over it.

 

[KOB1987]

Has anyone added up the French team caps? Seems like they are fielding a lot of inexperienced players and could easily have less overall caps in their team than we do.

I also don't think it is the biggest issue for either team. Some of the players with less than 10 caps will be more up to it than those with 50+.

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Someone did a few pages back, they were 530ish to our 480ish IIRC, so not much difference.

 

[dillyboy]

The big question is: Who's the fullback back-up if Morahan suffers an injury? Foley??? When it was the last time he played in that position at test level? Mmmmm. Naivalu, Speight and Taqele can't play at 15, they don't have the skills for the position.

I don't like it but if Morahan goes down I'm sure we'd see Quade drop back to 15 & Foley come on at 10

 

[dillyboy]

As a result of the Arbib report into ARU Governance the veto powers of the NSW Bloc, and to a degree the QLD bloc, no longer shape ARU decision making.

While the ARU were quick to adopt the "new" model, many on here struggle to move with the times and any Wallaby/ARU anything is simply an opportunity to get the Tin Foil Hat and Pitchfork out, no matter what the issue is: Coach, assistant coach, game plan, selections, training polivy, S&C, Lineouts calling, boot sponsor, ability under the high ball, approval of business partner, membership package options, whatever.. . .

Haters gotta hate. It is somewhere in the Constitution, and if not, it's the vibe. That's it.

I say get over it.

Get behind the Men in Gold. It is the only National Rugby Team that we have. Shit happens. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" - Jagger, M, Richards, K. (1969) Let It Bleed, Decca Records.

Go you Good Things.

MC is not the Messiah. He might be a Naughty Boy, but he is our Naughty Boy, and we need to get behind him. When the next bloke gets the Wobs gig, we should get behind them regardless of the state they were born in, what school they went to, the club they played for, or Super Rugby club that may have been associated with.

The biggest anchor that Australian Rugby has when it comes to the Wallabies is the fan and their parochialism.

Oh I was taking the piss - hence the

I back the Wallabies, no matter where they hail from

 

[KOB1987]

Win.
Every.
Test.

That simply has to be the mindset.

There's a good article by Mark Ella in the Aus this morning:

He believes Cheika is right in taking a calculated gamble with this game. Winning 4 games on tour will be hard enough, let alone trying to win all 5 with the same players each week. It's convenient that the France game was in the middle allowing some key players a freshen up as the two hardest games are the last two, and to have any chance of winning those and thus the grand slam we need to have our best players 100% fit and available. We don't know which French side is going to turn up and winning this game with this side would be a huge boost to confidence and momentum heading into next week.

Kepu, Arnold, Hooper, Hodge, DHP and Folau (and now Timani) aren't being rested as much as they are being removed from the risk of injury.

There was also an article about Kyle Godwin and while reading that it occurred to me that no-one has properly considered the players during the debate on here. Godwin, Morahan, and the others are obviously relishing at the opportunity they are being given to them and are going to give 100%. They want to win and believe they can.

Wallabies by 8.

 

[KOB1987]

Also Timani is off the bench so Skelton remains in the 23. I disagree with it pretty strongly. I kind of feel for the bloke because he is running on fumes as far as goodwill with Aussie rugby fans is concerned and needs to improve dramatically otherwise that may never recover.

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On principle I agree with you, however it's no doubt an indication that Timani is a key part of the plans for the next two games.

Similarly, I hope big Will kicks butt when he comes on, maintains his discipline and recaptures some of that goodwill.

 

[Gagger]

Cheika surprised me with the number of changes, but that's not a crazy team. Gives a few players chance who we may never see in gold except otherwise in total emergency - e.g. Godwin

Makes this match more interesting IMO. I just hope the dirt trackers can put on a cohesive performance.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Remember the best 10/12 combination we'd seen a couple of years ago - Cooper/To'omua? Godwin is a similar player to To'omua, strong, straight runner not afraid of physical confrontation and strong defender. I am hoping to see a similar combination between Cooper and Godwin in this test, even though they've never played together before so far as I am aware.

Really optimistic about the strong runners in Godwin, Kuridrani, Naivalu, Speight and Morahan (all the outside backs) taking advantage of Quade's flat passing game to run into space and put a world of hurt on the French. Just need flat passes to be judged ok by the ref rather than being pulled up as being forward.