Reds 2018

[TOCC]

Damian Marsh has joined Fiji rugby union as the head of conditioning across all the national teams, he left last month I believe.

 

[TOCC]

Mentioned it in the match day thread... including Hewat and Ngamanu from this weeks lineup, the Reds will have had 10 players 20years on or younger pull on the jersey in 2017, the next closest team is the Stormers with only 3 players 20years old or younger.

Ironically the Reds also have the oldest player in Super Rugby..

 

[amirite]

Mentioned it in the match day thread. including Hewat and Ngamanu from this weeks lineup, the Reds will have had 10 players 20years on or younger pull on the jersey in 2017, the next closest team is the Stormers with only 3 players 20years old or younger.

Ironically the Reds also have the oldest player in Super Rugby..

I don't think that's true mate. The Rebels have had at least Uelese, Tupai, Lomax, Goddard, Tuipolotu, and Maddocks.

I'm not sure if Tupou, Leota, or Tuimalealiifano got a go. Hopefully Tupou will this weekend.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Any ideas as to who would be in the mix as experienced Assistants ?

 

[amirite]

Any ideas as to who would be in the mix as experienced Assistants ?

There's lots of talented young guys around worth taking a punt on.

We've got this idea that there's no talented coaches in Australia but it's BS, our system just isn't putting guys in a position to succeed.

Obviously, not all guys are deserving but the system has to do better at the development stage, then the talent ID stage, and finally set them up so they can succeed in well run programs.

I don't know where the system is failing, but it's obvious it is. Some would say it's nepotism, and there's some merit to that but I'm not 100% sure it's the only answer.

 

[hammertimethere]

If the two I'd be most keen on replacing Gilmore with somebody experienced at pro level.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Isn't there a bloke down in Melbourne who might be looking for a gig ?

Sea Hedger down at Bond is up for renewal but after 3 years at the helm, being paid a shitload, he really hasn't been able to lift Bond off the bottom (or close to it). To me, he shouldn't be considered at all.

These choices are imperative to increasing performance

 

[RedsHappy]

There's lots of talented young guys around worth taking a punt on.

We've got this idea that there's no talented coaches in Australia but it's BS, our system just isn't putting guys in a position to succeed.

Obviously, not all guys are deserving but the system has to do better at the development stage, then the talent ID stage, and finally set them up so they can succeed in well run programs.

I don't know where the system is failing, but it's obvious it is. Some would say it's nepotism, and there's some merit to that but I'm not 100% sure it's the only answer.

amirite - you make some very good points.

Without question, THE single greatest failing of the ARU in the last 10-15 hears has been the abject non-construction of a proper strategy and fully resourced development pathway for the attainment of excellence in, and an adequate number of, rugby coaches at key levels of the whole Australian rugby system.

Essentially, we have nothing of this bar a few informal rough and ready attempts at State RU levels (and they, in their respective geos, are almost as culpable in this overall strategic policy area as is the ARU).

The lack of a proper, system-wide strategy and execution process for building competitive coaching capabilities (both general HC and specialised AC) in-depth is perhaps the biggest single reason we see such deficiencies in core elite-level rugby skills today in all or most of our Super teams and national team.

In contrast, their outstanding coaching skill development system is the single greatest asset and competition-killer within NZ rugby. They have invested in it hugely and successfully.

 

[gel]

The reds cannot afford to "take a punt" on assistants for next year.

There is only one option right now and that is to spend the money on one or two proven, successful super rugby (or higher) level coach - assistants or otherwise.

The Reds setup is currently incapable of success. Bringing in talented, young guys into that setup will just teach them losing habits.

Doing exactly the same as what has repeatedly failed time and time again again at the reds will not suddenly work.

Success has to be shipped in from somewhere else.

That is so obvious.

 

[dru]

Some thought it obvious last year too. To be fair I asked about the proposed assistants and why the required calibre couldn't be found in QPR. I'd say query is well answered in July 2017.

 

[Happy to Chat]

Isn't there a bloke down in Melbourne who might be looking for a gig ?

Sea Hedger down at Bond is up for renewal but after 3 years at the helm, being paid a shitload, he really hasn't been able to lift Bond off the bottom (or close to it). To me, he shouldn't be considered at all.

These choices are imperative to increasing performance

Bond and in particular Sean are in the process of developing the young up and coming players (Colts through to Prem's) this takes time and obviously changing a culture. They will be providing a development program in the near future that will ensure long term results. This season has been disappointing and he will be the first to mention that but what is encouraging is 5 Bond players were in the Aus u20's squad and unavailable for most of the season a further 2 played in the Qld u20's squad. Saying that Bond and in particular Sean was a failure is maybe a bit premature at this stage.


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[Scrubber2050]

Bond and in particular Sean are in the process of developing the young up and coming players (Colts through to Prem's) this takes time and obviously changing a culture. They will be providing a development program in the near future that will ensure long term results. This season has been disappointing and he will be the first to mention that but what is encouraging is 5 Bond players were in the Aus u20's squad and unavailable for most of the season a further 2 played in the Qld u20's squad. Saying that Bond and in particular Sean was a failure is maybe a bit premature at this stage.


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With the utmost respect to you Happy, 3 years is ample tome to make a difference.

I'd nearly be so bold as to say results under Sean (wins) have been less than in the previous 3 years when coaches were paid fuckall and probably didn't have the credentials of Sean

It's not about attracting stars or Reds players - they rarely ever play in clubland. It's about attracting those players just under the Reds level and turning them into the best players they can be. They are the lads that play week in week out

 

[RedsHappy]

Some thought it obvious last year too. To be fair I asked about the proposed assistants and why the required calibre couldn't be found in QPR. I'd say query is well answered in July 2017.

All the omens at present dru are that:

- Stiles and the whole Reds Assistants group will stay as is, where is.......

and

- Totality Tony - fresh off sustained success in Melbourne - will come to Ballymore in 2018 and provide uniquely valuable 'support and mentoring' to Stiles aka totally confused and responsibility muddling competition to Stiles that damages team clarity and morale even further

and

- the QRU will announce the above as 'strengthening the expertise and experience base of the Reds coaching group' aka we cannot admit all the coaching mistakes we make every year and be accountable so we'll kinda go back to 2016's 'each way bet' on two co-HCs even though we can't really say that

 

[Happy to Chat]

With the utmost respect to you Happy, 3 years is ample tome to make a difference.

I'd nearly be so bold as to say results under Sean (wins) have been less than in the previous 3 years when coaches were paid fuckall and probably didn't have the credentials of Sean

It's not about attracting stars or Reds players - they rarely ever play in clubland. It's about attracting those players just under the Reds level and turning them into the best players they can be. They are the lads that play week in week out

Everyone has an opinion and unfortunately that is yours, however given that it has only been 3 years that Bond Rugby started changing from the Breakers culture, I'm not saying that that was bad just a different focus and it may take a few more, to evolve into an elite and unique rugby club. I challenge you to elaborate why Norths have spent the last 3 years surfing the bottom of the log, Bond made 6th in their first year and 5th last year. The Breakers Boys are getting old and tired and have served the Gold Coast well (Ruben Fui 200 games not sure how many his brother Josh had and Vitori 150) Time for a change of guard and it takes a year or 2 to bring in the new blood. A rushed plan never works. A Good plan takes time and patience.
We'll have the same chat in 2-3 years time and my bet is it will be very different.


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[RedsHappy]

Everyone has an opinion and unfortunately that is yours, however given that it has only been 3 years that Bond Rugby started changing from the Breakers culture, I'm not saying that that was bad just a different focus and it may take a few more, to evolve into an elite and unique rugby club. I challenge you to elaborate why Norths have spent the last 3 years surfing the bottom of the log, Bond made 6th in their first year and 5th last year. The Breakers Boys are getting old and tired and have served the Gold Coast well (Ruben Fui 200 games not sure how many his brother Josh had and Vitori 150) Time for a change of guard and it takes a year or 2 to bring in the new blood. A rushed plan never works. A Good plan takes time and patience.
We'll have the same chat in 2-3 years time and my bet is it will be very different.
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FWIW I saw Bond U play Brothers at Brothers a few weeks back and BU was impressive in defeating Brothers. Many skilful players and great tactics, played with obvious conviction and passion.

 

[dru]

All the omens at present dru are that:

- Stiles and the whole Reds Assistants group will stay as is, where is...

and

- Totality Tony - fresh off sustained success in Melbourne - will come to Ballymore in 2018 and provide uniquely valuable 'support and mentoring' to Stiles aka totally confused and responsibility muddling competition to Stiles that damages team clarity and morale even further

and

- the QRU will announce the above as 'strengthening the expertise and experience base of the Reds coaching group' aka we cannot admit all the coaching mistakes we make every year and be accountable so we'll kinda go back to 2016's 'each way bet' on two co-HCs even though we can't really say that

Depressing.

OK can some one tell me about TT? I already have the depression bit, so about his background. Assistant in the Wallabies (under Deans?) thence Rebels? What are his claimed strengths?

 

[RedsHappy]

^^^^^

To me the essential question re the heavily rumoured move of TT to Ballymore to 'support and mentor' Stiles is why we have (after a 'global search') a Reds HC (in an absolutely critical period for the Reds) that needs this 'support and mentoring' from another ex-HC?

What successful Super HC ever needed another ex-HC to directly help him do the job?

And this before we contemplate the potential risks of such a structure to directional clarity within the team etc.

 

[Scrubber2050]

FWIW I saw Bond U play Brothers at Brothers a few weeks back and BU was impressive in defeating Brothers. Many skilful players and great tactics, played with obvious conviction and passion.

Only second win in 2017 I think.

I will be very surprised if the powers that be down at Robina keep paying the $150,000 for a coach with those results.

 

[TSR]

^^^^^

To me the essential question re the heavily rumoured move of TT to Ballymore to 'support and mentor' Stiles is why we have (after a 'global search') a Reds HC (in an absolutely critical period for the Reds) that needs this 'support and mentoring' from another ex-HC?

What successful Super HC ever needed another ex-HC to directly help him do the job?

And this before we contemplate the potential risks of such a structure to directional clarity within the team etc.

Yeah - this is what I don't get. Why would a head coach ever either want or need someone looking over his shoulder.

Either Stiles can do the head coach role, or he needs to be an assistant.

 

[amirite]

If TT is brought in it will be to help with certain tasks (like review, system/process optimisation, and god knows what else). The 'Director of Coaching' role is a pretty nebulous one, so it will be set up however helps the program be successful. TT is pretty good at this more clerical stuff, so it makes sense.

He won't be 'senior' to Stiles. In the same way that HR is not senior to management, despite managing hiring, firing, and process, TT will not be senior to Stiles.

My guess is TT wants to move back to Brissy for family reasons and so the Reds can get an ex-Super coach on the cheap to do a more minor role. Regardless of his success, it's a no brainer.