Aussie Player Exodus

[Braveheart81]

Not more deserving, its about getting an opportunity.
We have 2 wingers in Newsome and Verity am who imo are real goers. Granted they are green but if we allow a constant inflow of short term imports they will not even get a chance.
And thus the culture will be to just get a few super games, a bit of a reputation and then head off overseas.

Who is this constant inflow of short term imports you are talking about?

Everyone who has qualified in recent years under the residency rule and played for the Wallabies had played more Super Rugby games than the two guys you have listed have.

Unless Verity-Amm has an Australian parent or grandparent, he hasn't qualified yet.

I fail to understand how Alex Newsome is more deserving because he has lived in Australia all his life. I don't think it improves the team's culture to decide he is more worthy on that basis.

 

[Slim 293]

Verity Amm?

The South African who moved to Australia last year?

So your problem is not with foreign players, but non Western Force foreign players?

Got it.

 

[Killer]

Who is this constant inflow of short term imports you are talking about?

Everyone who has qualified in recent years under the residency rule and played for the Wallabies had played more Super Rugby games than the two guys you have listed have.

Unless Verity-Amm has an Australian parent or grandparent, he hasn't qualified yet.

I'm not interested in a debate about individuals details or have the time.
No doubt all your details will be correct.

But at a macro level we need the 5yr qualification period asap.

BTW it's not a immigrant or race thing as you are bringing up. It is imo a part of strengthening Aus rugby from the grass roots up.
My reply was initially about keeping our players playing at home.
You probably don't agree, that's fine.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm not interested in a debate about individuals details or have the time.
No doubt all your details will be correct.

And yet you singled out Speight, and suggested that players like him are taking away spots from other players such as the 23 year old South African who has been in Australia for 12 months.

 

[Killer]

And yet you singled out Speight, and suggested that players like him are taking away spots from other players such as the 23 year old South African who has been in Australia for 12 months.

If you need to have a fight, go to your local fight club or become a politician.

 

[Braveheart81]

You're all over the place here.

I do think we should keep as many of our players at home as possible.

I don't think we should put up barriers to allowing players who want to make Australia their home or have made it their home from playing if they are good enough.

Take Sefa Naivalu for example. He is essentially a player who both came through the grassroots and qualified under the residency test.

 

[Killer]

You're all over the place here.

I do think we should keep as many of our players at home as possible.

I don't think we should put up barriers to allowing players who want to make Australia their home or have made it their home from playing if they are good enough.

Take Sefa Naivalu for example. He is essentially a player who both came through the grassroots and qualified under the residency test.

I don't disagree at all, I just think the current period is too short. 5yrs I think is good. Henry is a good player and an easy target I guess, probably shouldn't have mentioned him as it distracted from my key points.

 

[Highlander35]

I don't disagree with it in a very general sense.

That is, more preference should be shown to players that come through the Aussie systems, than those that are recruited from overseas.

Far too many wedge cases, particularly in an immigrant society accepting so many PIs, Kiwis and Saffas already, to make sweeping statements.

There's a Speight coming from overseas with no connection to Australia.

There's a Kepu coming from overseas with Australian eligibility but no time in the systems.

And there's a Sefa, recruited from within Australia but no connection to Australia, or time spent in the systems.

Or Koroibete, or Peni recruited from Rugby League within Australia and eligible for Australia but both foreigners.

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[joeyjohnz]

Or Koroibete, or Peni recruited from Rugby League within Australia and eligible for Australia but both foreigners.

Not directed at you Highlander, more at a few others in this thread. But if you want to exclude foreigners (those not born in Aus), you're kind of excluding 28.2% of the Australian Population.

 

[Highlander35]

Not directed at you Highlander, more at a few others in this thread. But if you want to exclude foreigners (those not born in Aus), you're kind of excluding 28.2% of the Australian Population.

My very very loose definition of foreigner (at least in this context) is someone who didn't commence Primary or Secondary level education when they moved to Australia.

And hence moved for career or personal development opportunities (whether in Rugby or otherwise) and not for superior below tertiary education, or for family.

 

[Braveheart81]

That is, more preference should be shown to players that come through the Aussie systems, than those that are recruited from overseas.

How many are actually recruited from overseas though?

In most cases they've come here looking for opportunity as every immigrant to this country does.

I find it hard to make much differentiation between the player whose family emigrated here when they were a kid and spent some years in our junior system versus someone who didn't have that opportunity if you like and could only move here when they were in a position to make that decision themselves.

I don't think there is any evidence that we ignore our own systems because we instead actively invest in pillaging talent from the Pacific Islands.

If anything, our rugby culture is being kept alive by the fact that our immigrant population from NZ, Pacific Islands and South Africa are keen to keep playing rugby. Being less inclusive of those people based on them being more recent arrivals to our country seems more likely to damage our rugby culture than improve it.

 

[fatprop]

I don't disagree at all, I just think the current period is too short. 5yrs I think is good. Henry is a good player and an easy target I guess, probably shouldn't have mentioned him as it distracted from my key points.

I understand the rules are unlikely to change from the current rules as it is tied to Olympic accreditation

 

[Braveheart81]

I understand the rules are unlikely to change from the current rules as it is tied to Olympic accreditation

The 5 year residency requirement has been agreed.

It commences from 1 January 2021. Effectively it means that if you haven't started your 3 year residency period by 31 December 2017 and therefore qualify on 31 December 2020, you are subject to the five year rule.

Essentially it will not be possible to qualify under the residency rule from 1 January 2021 to 1 January 2023 which is the transition period.

 

[fatprop]

The 5 year residency requirement has been agreed.

It commences from 1 January 2021. Effectively it means that if you haven't started your 3 year residency period by 31 December 2017 and therefore qualify on 31 December 2020, you are subject to the five year rule.

Essentially it will not be possible to qualify under the residency rule from 1 January 2021 to 1 January 2023 which is the transition period.

So what happens when someone wants to play 7s for Aus, has lived here for the Olympic qualifying period of 3 years and is denied the opportunity?

I smell a court case and the Court of Arbitration for Sport

 

[Braveheart81]

So what happens when someone wants to play 7s for Aus, has lived here for the Olympic qualifying period of 3 years and is denied the opportunity?

I smell a court case and the Court of Arbitration for Sport

I don't think an Olympic qualifying period exists. It is based on citizenship.

 

[Highlander35]

Which is interesting as it's 4 years for Aussie Citizenship against 5 for Rugby.

It'll be interesting if and when it happens.

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[Braveheart81]

Which is interesting as it's 4 years for Aussie Citizenship against 5 for Rugby.

It'll be interesting if and when it happens.

It's 4 months if you're a chance at winning an Olympic gold medal

 

[No4918]

How many players have come back and been better after a stint overseas? Pretty much all I can think of have been at best the same, however most are worse. Jury still out on Beale obviously.

 

[Jagman]

During the entire professional era of rugby only 2 players have qualified as a Wallaby via the the 3 year residential rule WHO WOULD NOT HAVE qualified under a 5 year residential rule. They are Speight and Naivalu. The only other players who will likely add to this list are Tupou and Naisarani. It's really not a predominant issue.

 

[Forcefield]

Not more deserving, its about getting an opportunity.
We have 2 wingers in Newsome and Verity am who imo are real goers. Granted they are green but if we allow a constant inflow of short term imports they will not even get a chance.
And thus the culture will be to just get a few super games, a bit of a reputation and then head off overseas.

The counter argument to that is that they took an opportunity that could have been given to Brad Lacey (WA boy and former Aus U20).

We let a lot of potential talent slip through the cracks (my reasoning for why we need to concentrate on maximising the NRC).

I think back to Jake Ball in WA. Played locally and left at 21 because the Force weren't interested (another Dick Graham special). Two years later he plays Internationally for Wales. In his place we had Toby Lynn, Phoenix Battye and Rory Walton (thanks again Dick).

Pick the best player available, but search for opportunities to let the young fellows shine.