Pole: Should there be a level playing field for Australian Super Rugby teams?

[fatprop]

That's not true... the Brumbies did move To'omua to 12. He went overseas because the money was good, and frequent injuries were limiting his Wallaby opportunities, as well as the brief return of Giteau.

or partly his wife's opportunity to extend her career in county cricket?

As a young married couple a well paid working holiday is not a crap idea

 

[fatprop]

Why wouldn't To'omua move to 12, he wasn't a great 10

 

[fatprop]

Nah, the wheels have fallen off the Brumbies' development of Wallabies, big time. Only two starters now in the national team and a lot of talk about Kuridrani making way for Hunt.Two currently on the bench, but Speight is well and truly in the firing line to be replaced in the 23 by Hunt. Something has clearly gone amiss at the Brumbies; must be a sure thing for the wooden spoon next year.

Where? He has been one of our best players and a fantastic foil for Beale

Speight? He hasn't been consistently good enough in a Wobs jersey to keep Koribete out of the side, Koribete is an upgrade, he is simply more dynamic in defence and attack

 

[fatprop]

In any case, that is just one example. Just what is happening to Arnold, Ala'alatoa, Powell and Speight now? And I seem to recall there was a bearded character playing on the side of the scrum who also got a rotten deal at Wallaby level.

Arnold has already said somewhere he needs to build on his consistency, you can't be good one week and not meet that standard to following week if the coach has other options to give a go

Ala'alatoa is exactly where he should be, reserve test THP learning his craft

Powell? best of luck justifying him, not a fan, a fit Phipps simply offers more dynamism and tempo in the back end of games

The bearded one was leaving didn't suit the structure being moved towards which was a lot less penalties, less attacking the ball at the breakdown, more fanning out and defending, more basic workrate. Even the most rabid bearded ones fans would not suggest they are his core skills

 

[Brumby Runner]

or partly his wife's opportunity to extend her career in county cricket?

As a young married couple a well paid working holiday is not a crap idea

Funny that. Elise seems to have spent more time back here in Aus playing cricket than she has in England.

 

[Brumby Runner]

FP, your multiple posts have just confirmed my statement that the Brumbies are not now developing test standard players. Or is that what you were meaning to do?

 

[fatprop]

FP, your multiple posts have just confirmed my statement that the Brumbies are not now developing test standard players. Or is that what you were meaning to do?

No, they have test quality players, but not a monopoly on them.

The challenge is that the Brumbies are a really well drilled quality team, but not many "stars"

Other sides have clearly less well drilled teams, but more individual game changers.

At test level you need those game changers.

Just think of the old Brumbies when they dominated the wobs. Where are their Smith's Roffs, larkhams, Gregans, Mortlocks etc etc in the current squad?

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[Brumby Runner]

I agree that the sum of the Brumbies' parts is mach better than the individual parts, and I don't expect the Brumbies' players to dominate the Wallabies. OTH I also think it is unfathomable that the Tahs do dominate the Wobs. Apart from Folau and Hooper, who from the Taha would people include in the same cohort as Smith, Roff, Larkham, Gregan and Mortlock? I certainly wouldn't be putting the likes of Kepu (close maybe), Robertson, Dempsey, Hanigan, Phipps, Foley or Beale (again close) in that class of player.
And the sum of their efforts in Super Rugby this year would not support a contention that they should be kept together because as a unit they were performing to the highest standards.

 

[fatprop]

.
And the sum of their efforts in Super Rugby this year would not support a contention that they should be kept together because as a unit they were performing to the highest standards.

I don't think they were kept together "as a unit" (to me the only contentious selections were Hanigan & Dempsey (and he demonstrated in the last game what the fuss was all about) the rest were damn obvious)

I think they were selected because they best suited how Cheika want the Wobs to play which is polar opposites from how the ponies played all season (and how I want the Wobs to play) we will never beat any of the decent test sides kicking to the corners and mauling to victory

 

[Brumby Runner]

And they won't win many games with the defensive record of the Tahs. 68 tries for 522 points scored against them, and unbelievably the Wallabies have the same defence coach. WTF.

 

[fatprop]

Agreed, something wasn't working at the Tahs this year (obviously), yet Grey has shown he can work it out at the Wobs and they have been solid; as have a number of players whose form was questionable going into the international season

and some haven't

 

[jimmydubs]

Agreed, something wasn't working at the Tahs this year (obviously), yet Grey has shown he can work it out at the Wobs and they have been solid; as have a number of players whose form was questionable going into the international season

and some haven't

Solid as in pretty average not as in solid like a wall.
When they weren't leaking like a sieve and missing innumerable tackles that is.

 

[fatprop]

Solid as in pretty average not as in solid like a wall.
When they weren't leaking like a sieve and missing innumerable tackles that is.

Their attitude and effort continued to improve throughout the season, the scramble got good and they worked very hard for each other.

That to me is positive after the true shit show all our sides were in the Super season





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[Brumby Runner]

FP, I can't agree with the contention that the defense has become solid as a result of Grey working things out. Any of the coaches might have had an influence but in my eyes Grey has not improved the defensive issues at all. Maybe the greater fitness of the players is helping to paper over the cracks.

To me, the most improvement has been in individual skills, ball handling, support play, running lines etc. I think Byrne's influence is starting to show through. Larkham seems to also be improving set piece attack plays, but the defense system remains a shambles.

 

[fatprop]

FP, I can't agree with the contention that the defense has become solid as a result of Grey working things out. Any of the coaches might have had an influence but in my eyes Grey has not improved the defensive issues at all. Maybe the greater fitness of the players is helping to paper over the cracks.

To me, the most improvement has been in individual skills, ball handling, support play, running lines etc. I think Byrne's influence is starting to show through. Larkham seems to also be improving set piece attack plays, but the defense system remains a shambles.

I disagree, it is all linked mate, better fitness and better skills means less bad turnovers and better efforts to scramble

The way we play there will be defensive misses, we don't play tight, we don't keep it close and kick to the corners. Want better defense look at what Deans turned the Wobs into, one out runs, close to the pigs at all times

We play with width, we play with risk, we end up with defensive miss matches if we get it wrong

 

[Killer]

I think it's about attitude, the team got it handed to them early V Scotland, Italy and Fiji. Then the NZ capitulation.
Since then I think the players have adjusted their attitude led by the team leaders, so far just a swinging roller coaster ride.
Not unlike Shreika's emotions, smugness when we win or play well to blaming the refs when we lose.
Aust needs some on field leaders to get some consistency because it won't come from Chek.
This weeks game will be very interesting from a psych perspective.

 

[BLR]

I think it's about attitude, the team got it handed to them early V Scotland, Italy and Fiji. Then the NZ capitulation.
Since then I think the players have adjusted their attitude led by the team leaders, so far just a swinging roller coaster ride.

It isn't surprising a national team dominated by a Super Rugby team that could be viewed as arrogant also displays this arrogance against smaller sides. It is an issue with the Tahs and seems to often be an issue with the modern Wallabies. Maybe the old adage that when QLD rugby is strong, Australian rugby is strong points towards this even further back in history.

 

[Derpus]

It isn't surprising a national team dominated by a Super Rugby team that could be viewed as arrogant also displays this arrogance against smaller sides. It is an issue with the Tahs and seems to often be an issue with the modern Wallabies. Maybe the old adage that when QLD rugby is strong, Australian rugby is strong points towards this even further back in history.

This presumption of arrogance is pretty weird. How were we arrogant? did we come out and say we were going to absolutely wipe the floor with them? Such bullshit. It's a figment that fits nicely into people's little anti-tah narrative. How the Tahs are arrogant, when they were completely shit all season and fully cognisant of that fact every time they dealt with the media is beyond me.
Are they arrogant because they choose not to play dire, 10 man rugby?
To be honest, most of what I've heard from Hooper has been pretty respectful.

 

[gel]

The wallabies defence has been solid???????

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha