Sydney Subbies 2025
- Thread starter Lindommer
- Start date
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
I wonder what happens if it had of been Beecroft given the strength of there 1s?
The Ghost of Bernie
Herbert Moran (7)
Yes focus on the positives...It is an unusual situation, but then we've had no shortage of those since COVID first hit.
Focus on the positives
A bus trip to Blacktown has the potential for more adventures than a bus trip to the Hills.
SubbiesSoftie
Frank Nicholson (4)
Glad to see subbies learning from their mistakes with Epping 2024.
parkfootyenthusiast2
Sydney Middleton (9)
Very interesting developments. I have many questions.
You have to wonder if this is 100% isolated to Barker's lack of ability to fill a second grade side, or if it's also got to do with the margin their first grade was conceding points through the first two weeks. If the latter, would we be in a different situation had they opened the season with say Hornsby and LCOI instead of Knox and Beecroft? Is a club better off fielding two grade sides and no colts in Div 3 or two grade sides and no colts? Either way somebodies not getting a game?
As it stands, their colts are still listed in the Div 3 colts competition, are they playing out of Blacktown (decent drive from Turramurra...) or are they a floating stand alone entity? Seems like an absolute mess either way. Wouldn't both sides going to Div 4 make more sense - currently one grade side and one colts side the requirement. Based on early season numbers is there any indication one of the Div 4 clubs could have fielded a second grade side?
As for the points debacle, I find it bemusing that Knox and Beecroft have probably lost players in hit outs against Barker in the opening two weeks for naught, and now likely have to travel to Blacktown with double points on the line. Indications out of Barker are that they gave multiple warnings to the Board that they would not be able to field the requisite number of teams and were largely ignored.
Seems like a relatively shambolic outcome across the board. For what it's worth, sad to see Barker in this state, not too long ago they were a reasonably competitive outfit in Division 1 and have made great strides with their womens outfit. A sign of the times.
You have to wonder if this is 100% isolated to Barker's lack of ability to fill a second grade side, or if it's also got to do with the margin their first grade was conceding points through the first two weeks. If the latter, would we be in a different situation had they opened the season with say Hornsby and LCOI instead of Knox and Beecroft? Is a club better off fielding two grade sides and no colts in Div 3 or two grade sides and no colts? Either way somebodies not getting a game?
As it stands, their colts are still listed in the Div 3 colts competition, are they playing out of Blacktown (decent drive from Turramurra...) or are they a floating stand alone entity? Seems like an absolute mess either way. Wouldn't both sides going to Div 4 make more sense - currently one grade side and one colts side the requirement. Based on early season numbers is there any indication one of the Div 4 clubs could have fielded a second grade side?
As for the points debacle, I find it bemusing that Knox and Beecroft have probably lost players in hit outs against Barker in the opening two weeks for naught, and now likely have to travel to Blacktown with double points on the line. Indications out of Barker are that they gave multiple warnings to the Board that they would not be able to field the requisite number of teams and were largely ignored.
Seems like a relatively shambolic outcome across the board. For what it's worth, sad to see Barker in this state, not too long ago they were a reasonably competitive outfit in Division 1 and have made great strides with their womens outfit. A sign of the times.
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
The ultimate question is what does this mean long term. I can’t see Barker Grade growing from playing the odd Halligans. I know the board will push them to try harder next year and find more players etc.
But if they don’t I assume they’ll go to Div 4 and we will have 2 teams in Div 3 (2 grades and colts) without a colts team if everything stays the same.
You could merge the two 2 team comps but that still leaves you with only 5 colts sides in a comp on there own…
Everyone will dismiss it now and say clubs will grow and the old division structure will be ok till we get to March next year and we are trying to pull another rabbit out of a hat to get competitions together below Div 1.
But if they don’t I assume they’ll go to Div 4 and we will have 2 teams in Div 3 (2 grades and colts) without a colts team if everything stays the same.
You could merge the two 2 team comps but that still leaves you with only 5 colts sides in a comp on there own…
Everyone will dismiss it now and say clubs will grow and the old division structure will be ok till we get to March next year and we are trying to pull another rabbit out of a hat to get competitions together below Div 1.
The Dunning Effect
Frank Row (1)
Hey folks. First time, long time. I thought I'd jump on to answer any questions about Old Barker, and the situation we've found ourselves in. I'm at the coalface so have first hand knowledge. Fire away!
The Dunning Effect
Frank Row (1)
Let's just say we were very transparent with the powers that be, since pre-season. And we are feeling extremely let down by what's transpired.
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
All the best for the rest of the year mate. Hopefully the club can rebound and you can see some success with your Colties and Women’s this year.
Just wondering what Subbies reasoning was to dumping your 1s into the Halligans comp rather than just a straight swap with Blacktown into Div 6? At least then you’d have regular games for your 1s?
parkfootyenthusiast2
Sydney Middleton (9)
You've always seemed to have a healthy amount of talented colts coming through, and your colts side seems to compete at the pointy end all year. What's been the struggle in keeping those blokes around trickling into the grade sides?
On that, have you noticed a drop off in the actual number of Colts coming through given the decline in school participation levels?
Are the grade players pleased with the 'demotion' or would they have been up for the challenge in Div 3 rest of season?
Is the plan to try and get a weekly Halligans game at the same location as your Colts and then run the women same day also?
Hope it all works out for you and we see the club back stronger next year.
The Dunning Effect
Frank Row (1)
Cheers Odyssey. Hopefully we can hang on to most of the grade that we've got and try to build for 2026. The difficulty will be having separate Colts and Grade playing locations now. We've only just resurrected Colts this year and it's going to be tough to build that club culture that keeps.those.young.guys around year on year when we're, for all intents and purposes, separate entities.
As for Subbies reasoning... it would be nice if they gave us one, let alone included us in the decision making. The course of events was that, after being pummelled by the 2 top dogs in Div 3, with our already lower than hoped for numbers we copped quite a few injuries over Round 1 and 2, so we were in a position this week where we couldn't safely put a grade team together. On Monday we emailed Subbies to tell them as such, then apparently they had their usual Monday night meeting, and decided to drop us and replace with Blacktown. No recourse, no questions.
I've been with the club a very long time and I'm extremely disappointed to say the least. And to be blunt, we shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place. We knew early on in pre-season that things were less than optimal as far as our Grade recruitment and retention was going. We emailed Subbies in mid-February to ask that we be graded to a lower division because we couldn't fulfill our Grade obligations and, to be honest, we didn't want another year where our guys were beaten badly every week. We didn't hear back and despite repeatedly telling them and asking for clarification, in the end we remained in Div 3. And now this...
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
I think that’s the question that many on this forum disagree on. Just cause you’ve got 15 guys does that mean they are 1st Graders even if they are new players to the game or lower skill level…
Skill level needs to be factored in
footy_footy
Ted Fahey (11)
I see the Div 6 draw on the subbies website is now looking a bit worse for wear - would it not benefit from the inclusion of Old Barker?
Can only play Mosman or Colleagues 6ths in Halligan so many times in a year!
I'm not doubting anything you are saying Dunning but always two sides to every story. Either way, surely it's in everyone's best interests to accommodate and support a club that's battling.
Can't help but feel how the Epping 2024 situation developed and ended last has driven this decision.
Can only play Mosman or Colleagues 6ths in Halligan so many times in a year!
I'm not doubting anything you are saying Dunning but always two sides to every story. Either way, surely it's in everyone's best interests to accommodate and support a club that's battling.
Can't help but feel how the Epping 2024 situation developed and ended last has driven this decision.
Here To Do
Herbert Moran (7)
Sorry to hear about the issues you've had. Seems maybe more indicative of Blacktown's relative strength in D6 than of yours (excluding injuries as you mentioned).
Would you put this down to the rigidity of Divs 5 and 6 being "Colts-less" comps and having you graded higher than Div 4? Seems like you maybe had the chance of fielding 1+1 in the Jeffrey and Radford but Subbies didn't want to relegate you?
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
Yep let’s just watch clubs fold rather than help them grow potentially cause how dare they be successful.
If we never think outside the box there won’t be divisions for all these “hurt” teams to play in. No one wants to admit it but Subbies has been struggling for years and we are getting to that critical tipping point where if we ignore it numerous clubs will fold and therefore so too will divisions.
footy_footy
Ted Fahey (11)
Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Certainly agree that things have reached the tipping point and a full scale review/restructure is needed (or at very least considered), that may even need external input or advice.
Off topic but looks like Merrylands have replaced Western Raptors in JJC - no harm done as round 1 was postponed for the raptors game. JJC div 2 draw still a week by week proposition though.
MasterSergeant
Bob McCowan (2)
That’s a reasonably blanket statement… look at the examples set by Blueys, Waves, Mosman, HH and even the Breakers to a lessor extent. There are a number of clubs doing well with recruitment and retention in 2025. The challenge is for those Subbies clubs in the lower divisions to close the gap. Now I know that is easier said than done, but even Blueys was a multi year journey… the ingredients … clear accountable high quality administration, a good quality coached rugby program, and a clear recruitment and retention strategy. Surely they seem to be common denominators for the aforementioned clubs.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
When you figure all that out, please publish it. I'm sure everyone would love to know!
Odyssey_Park the 2nd
Chris McKivat (8)
I said yesterday that there are always exceptions. Throw in UNSW and LCOI to that list but overwhelmingly clubs are struggling across the divisions (below Div 1) to get players on the park and then grow in size.
Maybe it is the quality of the administration at these clubs but the greater the number of clubs struggle the more likely it’s a bigger problem than clubs just not putting on the “effort”
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Quantity of volunteers is a big problem. So many guys - even at clubs with success - just want to turn up, play footy, get on the cans, and leave. No thought for how the field is marked, the physio arranged, the insurance paid, etc.
And then you ask people to help and they stick their hand out!
If I got paid minimum wage for the hours I do at our club, I wouldn't need my actual paid job. I'd rather do 6 hours a week and have the rest taken care of by someone else.