Sydney Subbies 2025

[Pfitzy]

Lot of experts based on a single long weekend performance

 

[Crashy]

Looks like the rain is backing off the next 36 hours so good signs for a full weekend of footy!

jeez mate not in Manly - tipping down here!

 

[Crashy]

Not to flog a dead horse, but Beecroft are quite annoyed the game against barker doesn't count. They never wanted to play on the long weekend and requested it be postposed only for the game to be cancelled retrospectively. Players that got injured are particularly annoyed.

To be fair to Barker most of the anger seems to be directed at subbies and how the situation unfolded. That being said removing Barker from the division was a must I don't think there would have been too many people keen to replay the same game another 2 times later in the year with the 1st game being so lopsided the ref ended the game 5-10 minutes early.

a bit sad re the bobs. played in the 90s and well into the 2000s. we had some poor years numbers-wise and 6 teams when we were dominating 2nd division and playing yo-yo with Div 1 and 2. I think the biggest issue for them is that the school is now not made up of students in the immediate area. Now kids come from all over sydney - so the old boys rugby dont have a pool of locals keen to play. A shame really but the whole upper north shore diaspora has changed so much in the last 10 years.

 

[Crashy]

Knox grammar have 8 teams in the opens but Old boys cant field more than 3 teams. Kings old boys the same. Iggies etc... in the 90s the old boys clubs had so many teams across the divisons, now they are a shadow. I hope at least some can rebuild to push for Div 2 and 1 like the 90s and early 2000s.

 

[subbies specialist]

That’s a reasonably blanket statement… look at the examples set by Blueys, Waves, Mosman, HH and even the Breakers to a lessor extent. There are a number of clubs doing well with recruitment and retention in 2025. The challenge is for those Subbies clubs in the lower divisions to close the gap. Now I know that is easier said than done, but even Blueys was a multi year journey… the ingredients … clear accountable high quality administration, a good quality coached rugby program, and a clear recruitment and retention strategy. Surely they seem to be common denominators for the aforementioned clubs.

$$

 

[Ozzie Bob]

a bit sad re the bobs. played in the 90s and well into the 2000s. we had some poor years numbers-wise and 6 teams when we were dominating 2nd division and playing yo-yo with Div 1 and 2. I think the biggest issue for them is that the school is now not made up of students in the immediate area. Now kids come from all over sydney - so the old boys rugby dont have a pool of locals keen to play. A shame really but the whole upper north shore diaspora has changed so much in the last 10 years.

Yeah Crashy it is sad to see the club struggling but i think it is symptomatic of the changes the at school. With the move to full co-education and the changing demographics at the school.

When i went through the school in the 90's the Under 13's went from the A's - F's. Now they are struggling to get One or 2 teams per age group.

I like that they have now developed a womens team and got colts back off the ground.

The anniversary year in 2018 saw a lot of club legends come back for a run and we took 2 premierships and were in the 1st grade grand final.

Finding the next generation of players to come through the club is the key challenge. Such a shame that they had 2 grade sides last season but cannot get the numbers this year.

 

[EddieJones1985]

Div 2 round three tips

Uni Vs Irish
Can’t see uni getting lucky three weeks in a row, Irish took Petersham the full 80. I’m going to take the upset on the bell. 28-25 Irish

Shammies Vs Forest
Tough one with both teams getting a gritty win last week. I think shammies will have the edge with the better set piece and territorial kicking. 33-20 Shammies

Pats Vs Briars
High scoring affair this one, I think briars can get the win this week, they have played Uni and Shammies so far and have shown they can score points still. If the can sort their defence out they’ll win some games. 35-30 Briars

 

[Subbies Footy Enthusiast]

Quantity of volunteers is a big problem. So many guys - even at clubs with success - just want to turn up, play footy, get on the cans, and leave. No thought for how the field is marked, the physio arranged, the insurance paid, etc.

And then you ask people to help and they stick their hand out!

If I got paid minimum wage for the hours I do at our club, I wouldn't need my actual paid job. I'd rather do 6 hours a week and have the rest taken care of by someone else.

Pfitzy has absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one. What we don’t like to admit is that outside the Division 1 clubs and (maybe) a few of the bigger Division 2 clubs, it appears that most clubs are held together by a tiny handful of volunteers. I’d wager this number is as small as half a dozen (or even less) individuals at a lot of clubs. The increasing work demands, pace of modern life and cost of living (especially housing crisis) has meant that fewer and fewer people are willing to volunteer their time for non monetary reward. Subbies is facing a volunteering crisis as much as rugby is facing a players crisis. We aren’t the only sporting or cultural entity feeling the pinch. Not sure what the answer to this problem is

 

[footy_footy]

Pfitzy has absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one. What we don’t like to admit is that outside the Division 1 clubs and (maybe) a few of the bigger Division 2 clubs, it appears that most clubs are held together by a tiny handful of volunteers. I’d wager this number is as small as half a dozen (or even less) individuals at a lot of clubs. The increasing work demands, pace of modern life and cost of living (especially housing crisis) has meant that fewer and fewer people are willing to volunteer their time for non monetary reward. Subbies is facing a volunteering crisis as much as rugby is facing a players crisis. We aren’t the only sporting or cultural entity feeling the pinch. Not sure what the answer to this problem is

Fully agree and I add that at many clubs it is the same volunteers who have been going at it for years if not decades to keep their club afloat. Volunteer fatigue is a major issue even for the most rusted on club person! You can see some clubs have been able to turn over their Committee and introduce younger faces but that is a luxury most clubs can't afford - there is a certain art to administering an amateur rugby club that is not inherent to most so you need to have some experience with youth. Would be interesting stats to see what the average age of club committees was and also how tenured committee members are. Moss doesn't grow on a rolling stone but no one wants to help! Hand out, not hand up!

 

[Pfitzy]

I’d wager this number is as small as half a dozen (or even less) individuals at a lot of clubs.

Sounds about right. And when some of them are also players it is even harder on game day.

What if one of those dedicated Committee members has an emergency of their own? You're even further in the shit.

I've said before that in our part of Sydney, "Old Boys" aren't really a thing. It isn't somewhere you live out your days; sell up and move to a spot up the coast and enjoy your retirement.

 

[Pfitzy]

As for the schools: changing demographics is part of it. Different demands on the teachers also means less time for rugby.

Additionally, it would help if schools saw themselves as part of the rugby system, rather than above it. Refer to my previous comments about playing midweek and allowing kids to play for local junior clubs. THAT is how you grow things. Working together.

Cue the gaggle of utter flops saying schools don't owe rugby anything, while printing their proud rugby history in every sales brochure they have

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I can be one of those flops Pfitzy and I have my thoughts around the whole structure and doubts about the results that would occur if things were shifted.

I look at Country Rugby as an example and it isn't thriving or growing and it doesn't have the same conflict with Schools fixtures. Sport isn't a given now for people. It is participated by those that seek it out.

I think some of the Old Boys Clubs went south when the crackdown on payments got enforced. If you played some of them, you knew 75% never saw the inside of the places they were associated with and there no issue with that initially but over time when those guys move on you are left with not much.

 

[Pfitzy]

I look at Country Rugby as an example and it isn't thriving or growing and it doesn't have the same conflict with Schools fixtures. Sport isn't a given now for people. It is participated by those that seek it out.

They're facing the same challenges in terms of working hours / cost-of-living.

And their demographics aren't changing so much as the population is shrinking.

 

[Pfitzy]

The data I'd like to see as a comprehensive set:
- How many registered juniors stop at U16 instead of going to opens?
- How many club/schools players stop at U18 instead of going onto Colts?
- How many Colts players stop at U20/21 instead of going onto seniors?

I'd suggest medium/high double-digit percentages at each stage, which is killing critical mass.

 

[Pfitzy]

I have my thoughts around the whole structure and doubts about the results that would occur if things were shifted.

I'll die on that hill but unless we try something different, we'll continue to see the same results.

 

[Heavyd]

Now that Pfitzy has unleashed the weather gods on the coast will be interesting to see what games go ahead for seaside clubs this week.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Knox grammar have 8 teams in the opens but Old boys cant field more than 3 teams. Kings old boys the same. Iggies etc... in the 90s the old boys clubs had so many teams across the divisons, now they are a shadow. I hope at least some can rebuild to push for Div 2 and 1 like the 90s and early 2000s.

The Old Boys clubs certainly face some challenging headwinds going forward with their traditionally easy recruitment strategy of "keep playing your mates you used to play with after school".

That being said, I think school participation numbers in Rugby are on the upswing again and we're starting to see it flow through. Whilst Barker grade has folded, their Colts outfit is decent, Knox colts remain the strong point at their club, LCOI are fielding two colts and two grade teams and their Colts are very handy. The challenge is whether or not those clubs can keep a majority of each yearly cohort flowing through to the grade teams once their days at Colts are up. For Barker, this appears to have been a challenge, but Knox and LCOI are really only 1-2 years of this away from fielding 3rd and eventually 4th grade teams.

Maybe some of that Lions and home World Cup momentum can carry over, time will tell.

 

[Heavyd]

Maybe some of that Lions and home World Cup momentum can carry over, time will tell.

I'm very bullish on what this years Lions tour will do for participation across all levels next year. Everyone on this forum knows full well rugby's struggles over the last decade, But it has survived and the only way from here has to be up!

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Yep, Iggies have heaps of teams at the school this year also.

These clubs just need to reach out and build up comms with the school and old boys union.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Div 3 Week 3 predictions:

Not sure we'll get 3 games on this week given the rain we've had, but on the off chance we do...

Beecroft @ Knox: The battle of the teams who lost their wins over BOBs already. Two formerly 2/2 win teams going head to head to return to 2 wins. Beecroft has been very very convincing through two weeks of the year (though Hornsby and Barker not exactly tough tests) whilst Knox was shakey at home vs LCOI last week. On that account, I'll give the edge to Beecroft in this one. Not sure what happened to Filipo in week 1 but Knox seemed to miss him last week. This will be the biggest test of the year so far for both teams, time to nut up or shut up. Beecroft by 10.

Hornsby @ LCOI: It's been tough sledding for both sides this year so far. Hornsby seems to have found the jump to Division 3 tough with large losses to Beecroft and Hills, whilst LCOI has had two relatively narrow losses to Hills and Knox. On that, you'd have to give the edge to LCOI at home who are finally looking to convert promising starts to Ws. LCOI by 10.

Blacktown @ Hills: The new kids on the block head 15 minutes east to Yattenden to play in a somewhat local darby vs Hills to open their account in Division 3. Hard one to call here, Hills have looked very solid through two weeks whilst Blacktown are a bit of an unknown, though they did have a close loss to large years Div 3 heavyweights Merrylands last week. I'll give the edge to the home side here, but will be watching this one closely as it could really go either way for mine. Hills by 7.