2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[qwerty51]

Not sure if anyones mentioned this already but just came across the info that in 2013 NZ pulled out using any players who were contracted into Super rugby squads for the JWC squad. In 2014 they've extended this to ITM squads. It means more experience for their younger players. Means much less success at Junior level but a hell of a lot more experienced senior group of players.

What?

 

[It is what it is]

Not sure if anyones mentioned this already but just came across the info that in 2013 NZ pulled out using any players who were contracted into Super rugby squads for the JWC squad. In 2014 they've extended this to ITM squads. It means more experience for their younger players. Means much less success at Junior level but a hell of a lot more experienced senior group of players.

The Kiwi's also had a policy of allowing each player only one year in the U20 squad. It lessened their U20 team's strength in the short term but built tremendous depth for future years at senior level.

 

[I like to watch]

There are many Gaggerlanders who are rather critical of the NTS, NGS, Under 18 Development squads (or whatever the latest incarnation of the name is), the talent identification scheme that puts kids into those programmes at 15 and 16 years, and monitors them through the ARU Academy, Waratah Development Academy (or whatever the current terminology is).

Yet recent age group success from Poms and Welsh seems to validate such an approach.

Is our talent spotting so bad that we are putting the wrong kids into our programmes, or is it that we do not put enough kids into these elite development programmes?

Long time critic of squad selections.
However,I believe there has been a massive improvement in the training and selecting the squad this year.
There will always be disagreements about certain positions,but I think they did a great job,and am confident they will review the process and improve it further.

 

[kiap]

Tevita Li must have been sacked?

Maybe we can poach him then.....

I reckon the present NZ system has been shown up. A few Kiwis refuse to see it, though.

 

[qwerty51]

The Kiwi's also had a policy of allowing each player only one year in the U20 squad. It lessened their U20 team's strength in the short term but built tremendous depth for future years at senior level.

When was this?

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

I think they can select the odd ITM squad player but if they are judged to have had any more than a handful of caps they are excluded. Which is unlikely anyway for an U20 player. So in essence no ITM representation in the JWC squads.

 

[Forcefield]

Ardie Savea played against the Aussie U20s last year in France. Pretty sure he had been playing for the Hurricanes at that point.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Simon Hickey has played 10 caps for Auckland Blues, 14 for Auckland ITM cup, and was at the 2013 Jnr RWC.

Tevita Li played North Harbour ITM cup last year and has 6 Auckland Blues Caps.

There may be others.

 

[It is what it is]

When was this?

Their 2010 squad only had 1 player from their 2009 winning squad.
Their 2011 squad only had 2 players from their 2010 winning squad.
This was part of a deliberate policy to drive development.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

There are many Gaggerlanders who are rather critical of the NTS, NGS, Under 18 Development squads (or whatever the latest incarnation of the name is), the talent identification scheme that puts kids into those programmes at 15 and 16 years, and monitors them through the ARU Academy, Waratah Development Academy (or whatever the current terminology is).

Yet recent age group success from Poms and Welsh seems to validate such an approach.

Is our talent spotting so bad that we are putting the wrong kids into our programmes, or is it that we do not put enough kids into these elite development programmes?

The setup with our development (training a couple to three afternoons per week) is vastly different to what they do up north. The professional clubs with their gyms and coaches, plus playing some seriously hard footy, often against players a couple of years older, leaves us for dead. In most cases they would train most days of the week, including s&c.

 

[Lee Grant]

That is right Iluv and, talking about England, they can afford to do it. Their lads would attend at the academies of their local pro club as full-timers and undergo many of the same processes as their senior club colleagues—and be involved in some opposed training with the older guys.

The best would get together on a scheduled basis for national training, especially before U20 Six Nations but at other times too.

I think we'll see more of this in Australia, though it will be practically more difficult in our big country, or even in Sydney. It would be a big ask, for example, for a young player (who we couldn't afford to pay, even a modest amount) to attend with the Waratahs at Moore Park day by day if he lived in Parramatta or Penrith.

And whilst they are still at school the young Poms would get the same kinds of programmes than young NRL players get.

As I have said elsewhere: if the England lads had the same rugby history as our boys (in a parallel universe) and ours had theirs, then they were transported back through a Black Hole to this universe, our recent U20 results would have been better and theirs, worse.

England rugby loses that advantage as both sets of lads get older and the best Aussies get into Super Rugby squads, and the playing field becomes more even.

However there is still a bit of the "learning on the job" aspect to our young tight forward professionals because they don't have that backlog of earlier training.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Expect to see the team to play against Italy to be dramatically different.

The way the schedule was struck the strategy was to play the best team against Argentina and England and win both games then give everybody a run against Italy.

It didn't work, but it was the only practicable strategy and people shouldn't be banging on their keyboards about the matter when they see the team.

They will anyway, because they will want to see the best Aussies play in every game, but they should have some regard to the load these young players would have to bear playing three tough games in a row.

And yes, the squad was picked with the ability to back-up in a short period in mind, which is why some players missed out on the trip altogether.

People will bang on about this player and that should have been starting in the two games we have had already. This is always the case and always will be, but it will not be to the point of having to rest starting players, whoever they are.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And yes, the squad was picked with the ability to back-up in a short period in mind, which is why some players missed out on the trip altogether.

Do you mean the guys were picked who could cover more than 1 position even though they might not be the second best in their primary position, getting the nod because their second and third positions needed to be covered?

 

[I like to watch]

I can't think of a player selected,where there are clearly 2 superior players in their primary position.
Think of it more like a Skelton v Jones scenario.
There are strong arguments for selecting either player,however Jones would be more suited on a tour like this,for fitness and versatility reasons.

 

[Braveheart81]

The criticism of Angus Pulver's selection seems a little harsh. He's the second string half back and he hasn't looked any worse than the starting half.

Did the Manly half not have a strong tournament at the national championships?

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Beat]

The criticism of Angus Pulver's selection seems a little harsh. He's the second string half back and he hasn't looked any worse than the starting half.

Did the Manly half not have a strong tournament at the national championships?

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@Michael put in a post and said it was sarcastic.
I put in a post comparing them in 2 different games and that is hard in a team sport.
I didn't see the National Championships and i support Manly, but i haven't been critical of Pulver

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I can't think of a player selected,where there are clearly 2 superior players in their primary position.
Think of it more like a Skelton v Jones scenario.
There are strong arguments for selecting either player,however Jones would be more suited on a tour like this,for fitness and versatility reasons.

thats what I was trying to say: a bloke who play 12 , 14 and 15 - might not be the second best 12 say but he can cover 14 and 15 where they might be thin for coverage and so gets the nod.
so before you can legitimately criticise a selection you'd need to know how the selectors saw the options which the selection gave the squad and not just the team.

 

[rugby roo]

Guys
I saw the Aus v England Game first hand.Yes they were much bigger specimens for sure.But apart from some "soft tries" by England and the usual couple of ordinary refereeing decisions Aus were not outclassed as such. Sure a missed tackle leading directly to a try is a game error that can cost you a game but it does not need a full review of the selection training and coaching of the squad.If we are all perfect every game is nil nil!
I bet the fifteen would love to replay his decision to dummy and not pass.Aus are not miles off the pace at all.Less mistakes by England is probably a result of more time in prep. than our guys.
Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater! They beat Arg. For first time in a few years.

 

[Dave Beat]

Guys
I saw the Aus v England Game first hand.Yes they were much bigger specimens for sure.But apart from some "soft tries" by England and the usual couple of ordinary refereeing decisions Aus were not outclassed as such. Sure a missed tackle leading directly to a try is a game error that can cost you a game but it does not need a full review of the selection training and coaching of the squad.If we are all perfect every game is nil nil!
I bet the fifteen would love to replay his decision to dummy and not pass.Aus are not miles off the pace at all.Less mistakes by England is probably a result of more time in prep. than our guys.
Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater! They beat Arg. For first time in a few years.

Id love the team to get a chance to play them again

 

[Jaghond]

Aus U 20 team to take on Italy tomorrow ( from ARU website)

Australian Under 20s:
1. Cameron Orr
2. Feleti Kaitu’u
3. Tom Robertson
4. Tom Staniforth
5. Jack Payne
6. Sean McMahon - c
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Ross Haylett-Petty
9. Angus Pulver
10. David Horwitz
11. Andrew Robinson
12. Luke Burton
13. Lalakai Foketi
14. Brad Lacey
15. Andrew Kellaway
Reserves:
16. Tevita Vea
17. Rory O’Connor
18. Allan Ala'alatoa
19. Lolo Fakaosilea
20. Sam Croke
21. Joe Powell
22. Jimmy Stewart
23. Conrad Quick

Match is being shown live again on Fox......