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2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

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Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Cheers for that. Excellent.


This is the key as well - sponsorship.

Australia needs to be looking to go down this path IMO. Extend our existing state programs - but start with establishing one perhaps, as Scotland did.


Key advantage we have in Sponsorship is that Murrayfield is owned by the SRU. So all the money that goes towards stadium rights over here, that goes straight into the pockets of government or private owners goes right back into SRU coffers for us.

The Southern States and regional U20s tournaments have certainly been better preparation for the Cup itself, but there's a lot more that could be done over the longer term and I hope we find a way to do it.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
Given the current, U15 and U17 Gold Cup pathway, the next logical step is an U19 comp, sensibly based on the NRC teams as a step from school and under age club teams and as base for the U20 RWC the next year. who will bear the cost is of courses the crux of the matter and another thing all together
 
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TOCC

Guest
Given the current, U15 and U17 Gold Cup pathway, the next logical step is an U19 comp, sensibly based on the NRC teams as a step from school and under age club teams and as base for the U20 RWC the next year. who will bear the cost is of courses the crux of the matter and another thing all together

Why in an era where world rugby and other codes have chosen U20 as the logical step in development would we go to U19? The JWC is not the end goal...



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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I

If the intent is to get serious about winning the Jnr RWC (It is much easier to type than the World Rugby Under 20 Championships!), then the way to go is an Under 19 Competition. The ASRU National Schoolboys championships does no favours for our talented players who leave school as 17 year olds. Currently this is most of the Queensland cohort and I'm guessing about 10-20 per cent of kids from the other states. ASRU criteria for selection into Australian Schoolboys is Under 18 AND at School, or studying towards a Year 12 qualification if home schooled or at TAFE etc.

One small (but extremely important) point that you are overlooking HJ. If the competition is run as U/19s, then it has to be played under the modified 19s rules, which will won't help our 20s JWC preparation at all. In fact it would severely hamper it IMO.

Has to be a 20s competition or not at all. As other posters have identified, a 20s competition will still contain 19 and perhaps some 18 year olds.

It can't just be focussed on JWC success either, it must be part of a process to improve our potential super players and thus Wallabies as well.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Many of the complaints about our under 20s side is that they're getting beaten in the physical aspects of the game against the best teams and that we should only pick players playing grade in the future.

Wouldn't having an under 20 NRC only exacerbate that problem? Last year the best under 20s players got to play in the NRC. If going forward they didn't get that opportunity and instead kept playing amongst their own age group, wouldn't it defeat the purpose.

Under 20 NRC might be better for our overall development because it will provide more opportunity for more players to play at a higher level but for our best players it will be a step backwards.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I was thinking of the u20s NRC to run alongside Super Rugby until the JWC later that year. You definitely want the u19 playing the proper NRC the year before.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I was thinking of the u20s NRC to run alongside Super Rugby until the JWC later that year. You definitely want the u19 playing the proper NRC the year before.

If you're going to run it with the super season it would make more sense for the 5 Aussie sides to have a 20s team and they play each other on derby games as a curtain raiser and the rest of the time they play grade rugby.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Probably, the best solution would be every Super Rugby team having an u20s and then playing curtain raisers. Would also have them playing against other countries regularly but of course no money for it. I think 5 teams would be too few for a competition style.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
What do they do in NZL? That may be a useful start point for us to investigate adopting.

They seem to get a degree of success with their methodology, rejigged as it was in the last 12 months after a long lean period (for them).
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think they just had a good year of talent, I still think NZ is now behind England in terms of youth development (well everyone is).
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Probably, the best solution would be every Super Rugby team having an u20s and then playing curtain raisers. Would also have them playing against other countries regularly but of course no money for it. I think 5 teams would be too few for a competition style.

They play each other once (or twice if the draw works that way) and the team with the most points win. 5 teams is plenty for the depth of talent that we have in Australia.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
I think they just had a good year of talent, I still think NZ is now behind England in terms of youth development (well everyone is).
Yeah but it was more than that. They specifically selected and then trained for size and strength:

"The national Under-19 tournament in Taupo last year meant we got to see the guys in context, at a high level, and got to focus on their work-ons and areas to improve like weight, size and strength," said new head coach Scott Robertson.​
"Some guys have made massive shifts. So overall in our body-mass, we are bigger in that tight five."​
Into that category comes Canterbury lock Hamish Dalzell - whose mother is a Whitelock - already standing over 2m, who has packed on 12kg, Auckland second-rower Jamie Lane, who is more than 10kg heavier, while openside Mitch Karpik, who was 92kg, is now over 100kg.​
New Zealand had a set-piece clinic from South Africa last year, and so the size and techniques of the tight five are under the microscope.​
Robertson and his assistants Leon MacDonald (attack) and Tana Umaga (defence) will name the 28-man squad for the Junior World Championship after the Oceania tournament.​

From that article, NZ have an under-19 domestic tournament.

The um-ing and ah-ing over whether Oz should have U19 or U20 matches shouldn't be a big deal. Just call it under 20 (with full caffeine scrums) but make sure there are still enough players selected that will qualify for the following year's JWC.

The playing side of it is important, but so is the physical training.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
They play each other once (or twice if the draw works that way) and the team with the most points win. 5 teams is plenty for the depth of talent that we have in Australia.
Sounds good, dollars permitting.

The draw won't quite work that way to get full home and away from 2016, but the missing matchups could still be tacked on as other curtain raisers if needed.
 
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TOCC

Guest
I don't think an Oz Super Rugby U20's tournament will work: quite simply I don't think VIC, ACT and WA as individual states have the depth at U20's to field competitive teams against NSW and QLD. They could recruit from NSW and QLD but that's going to significantly increase costs. Yes it would be better then nothing but it's not ideal.

That been said, the rumoured academy set-up might change this if those states can recruit 4 or 5 quality U20's players to mix it with the locals.


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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Haven't we already tried the Academies model before, circa 2010?

Was there originally one centrally funded and coordinated Academy with ACT, NSW and QLD "depots", followed by cost cutting to establish independent Academies in ACT, NSW and QLD which were to be locally funded?
 
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TOCC

Guest
Haven't we already tried the Academies model before, circa 2010?

Was there originally one centrally funded and coordinated Academy with ACT, NSW and QLD "depots", followed by cost cutting to establish independent Academies in ACT, NSW and QLD which were to be locally funded?

Completely different model...
It's rumoured WA, Vic etc will be given funding to run their own in house academies for up to 10 players in the 17-20yr age bracket. They will essentially be training full time with the respective super rugby teams.


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kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Completely different model.
It's rumoured WA, Vic etc will be given funding to run their own in house academies for up to 10 players in the 17-20yr age bracket. They will essentially be training full time with the respective super rugby teams.
Yep. The word academy can cover a lot of different things. WA have an academy now but it's not the same thing as what @Highlander35 gave some details on earlier.

SMPLu7C.jpg


But the existing state/supe programs in Aus can be upgraded to move in that direction.
 
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TOCC

Guest
Yep. The word academy can cover a lot of different things. WA have an academy now but it's not the same thing as what @Highlander35 gave some details on earlier.

But the existing state/supe programs in Aus can be upgraded to move in that direction.


go on elaborate, how do the new proposed/rumoured academies for the Force and Rebels in 2016 vary from what Scotland is trying to develop..

WA have an academy now but its not of the scale or funding of what is proposed for 2016.
 
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TOCC

Guest
What WA have now is irrelevant, I'm more inclined to focus on what the Force and Rebels intend to have for 2016, a group 17-20yr old players all living and training full-time at the Western Force and Rebels is a massive step in the right direction and will go a long way to giving our U20's players the Skills and S&C requirements to perform at the JWC.
 
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