2025 Bledisloe Cup Series

[rugbyAU]

tired of reading the criticism each week getting thrown at the 5/8s

well they haven't been able to retain their spot for consecutive weeks due to consistent poor performances, we'd love to have no reason to do so

 

[Adam84]

well they haven't been able to retain their spot for consecutive weeks due to consistent poor performances, we'd love to have no reason to do so

if they haven’t retained it for consecutive weeks is it really based on consistency

 

[TSR]

Id argue, that gngr votes, and performance said Noah played better, he was the one Joe wanted to go with. Now its out in the open, and Dono seems to not control a game as well as the others.

I agree. I was fine with the decision to persist with Lolesio although I also wouldn’t have been concerned if he’d given Donaldson a go. I don’t think there would have been a huge difference either way.

 

[TSR]

Noah did get the bump of being part of Australia’s most consistently high performing side. It’s always made a difference.

I think it’s more Lolesio was the last man standing when Rennie turned to him in 2020. And people should remember he played very well that year and was MOM in the Super Rugby final. I think most thought it was too early for him but, at the same time he was also the most logical choice available. Since then he’s been a pretty consistent performer. He just isn’t the top flight 10 we all crave. But neither is Donaldson.

 

[TSR]

"But I’ve never seen anything to suggest he is better. He’s started the last two super rugby seasons as probably Australia’s best 10 for the first 4-5 rounds but he’s never really sustained it."
I think you answered your doubts there in your own words. In this year's early rounds of Super rugby he WAS head and shoulders above any other 10... so on his best day he is better than the others... but you are right in saying that that form wasn't sustained... the conundrum.
That's why I'd like to see him the one persevered with, like Noah was. He's the most gifted imo. Just needs more time and not in and out like a yo-yo.
Hopefully starts every Test on the Spring Tour and we'll know one way or the other.

I didn’t say he was head and shoulders and I never thought that.

I thought Lynagh was right up there and personally I thought Lynagh was better overall. I still think he’s the better player. My biggest concern with him is his own health.

 

[wamberal99]

Slipper has been through a lot, and kept going. In the end he has earned the admiration of every lover of the game.

 

[Tomthumb]

I think it’s more Lolesio was the last man standing when Rennie turned to him in 2020. And people should remember he played very well that year and was MOM in the Super Rugby final. I think most thought it was too early for him but, at the same time he was also the most logical choice available. Since then he’s been a pretty consistent performer. He just isn’t the top flight 10 we all crave. But neither is Donaldson.

Unless he has been given the opportunity it isn't really fair to just assume this

The issue with Noah was that he was given a lot of consistent chances by Schmidt and he never improved. No one is expecting these guys to be world beaters right off the bat, but there really needs to be tangible improvement shown at some point

I like the idea of picking a young guy and sticking with him. I just think he picked the wrong one in Noah. Hope Edmed can get a decent crack at it because I think he has a higher ceiling than Noah

 

[Slim 293]

Unless he has been given the opportunity it isn't really fair to just assume this

You can keep repeating this falsehood in every match thread, but Donaldson has had plenty of opportunities, including test matches such as the two starts last year he was poor in, and several years playing in the same competition and being a regular test squad member to adjudicate and compare his abilities to his competition.

 

[Braveheart81]

The issue with Noah was that he was given a lot of consistent chances by Schmidt and he never improved. No one is expecting these guys to be world beaters right off the bat, but there really needs to be tangible improvement shown at some point

I like the idea of picking a young guy and sticking with him. I just think he picked the wrong one in Noah. Hope Edmed can get a decent crack at it because I think he has a higher ceiling than Noah

I have never been a big fan of Lolesio and have never thought he's a viable long term option if we want to become a top 4 or 5 team again but I don't think it's reasonable to say he hasn't improved.

He was picked initially as the best of the young options and prior to injury this year he was still in that same spot as being the best of the available options.

He hasn't improved massively to become a top 5 test 10 but neither have any of the alternatives.

I don't think you can say that it's only being selected to play test matches that allows players to improve. We have seen huge improvement in players like Tom Hooper and Max Jorgensen between test seasons.

In terms of Donaldson he has clearly dropped down the pecking order this season. Yoda's comment about hoping he starts every test on the end of year tour seems like pure wishcasting. At this stage it seems he is either the third 10 in the squad or doesn't get selected at all.

 

[HogansHeros]

All well and good to talk about picking and sticking and who is the best 10, but at the moment we are picking 10s based on who is not injured... I don't think anyone recently has been dropped from the Wallabies at 10 due to performance, only based on who is available.

 

[rugbyAU]

kalani Thomas looks to be with the team

 

[Tomthumb]

You can keep repeating this falsehood in every match thread, but Donaldson has had plenty of opportunities, including test matches such as the two starts last year he was poor in, and several years playing in the same competition and being a regular test squad member to adjudicate and compare his abilities to his competition.

He wasn't poor against Argentina. Backline was as good as it's ever looked early on. They fell apart largely after he went off. He wasn't great vs Georgia but it was a cobbled together B team with no cohesion so that's hardly shocking

He hasn't had plenty of opportunities at 10, 4 other players have had more starts at 10 under Schmidt than him

 

[Tomthumb]

I have never been a big fan of Lolesio and have never thought he's a viable long term option if we want to become a top 4 or 5 team again but I don't think it's reasonable to say he hasn't improved.

He was picked initially as the best of the young options and prior to injury this year he was still in that same spot as being the best of the available options.

He hasn't improved massively to become a top 5 test 10 but neither have any of the alternatives.

I don't think you can say that it's only being selected to play test matches that allows players to improve. We have seen huge improvement in players like Tom Hooper and Max Jorgensen between test seasons.

In terms of Donaldson he has clearly dropped down the pecking order this season. Yoda's comment about hoping he starts every test on the end of year tour seems like pure wishcasting. At this stage it seems he is either the third 10 in the squad or doesn't get selected at all.

Playing isn't the only way to improve, but especially when it comes to playing 10 time in the saddle is crucial as it's not so much about physical development that Hooper and Jorgo had, it's about mental development. And you cant do that anywhere but in a game

Yeah I'd be surprised is Donaldson is even on the end of year tour to be honest. Schmidt obviously doesn't rate him at all. But Schmidt also didn't really rate Hooper last year or even the start of the Lions series, so I don't necessarily think his dropping means he's 100% not good as some seem to think

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

View attachment 23456

kalani Thomas looks to be with the team

As he should be.

With Tates injury there is a spot needing to be filled on the EOYT and the only other guy you could realistically float like Teddy Wilson is still playing in Super Rugby Aus. Thomas would be ahead of Wilson on a depth chart for me.

 

[Slim 293]

He wasn't poor against Argentina. Backline was as good as it's ever looked early on. They fell apart largely after he went off. He wasn't great vs Georgia but it was a cobbled together B team with no cohesion so that's hardly shocking

He was… and the team had already started falling apart well before he came off.

 

[TSR]

As he should be.

With Tates injury there is a spot needing to be filled on the EOYT and the only other guy you could realistically float like Teddy Wilson is still playing in Super Rugby Aus. Thomas would be ahead of Wilson on a depth chart for me.

I agree at this point - I think it’s just too early for Wilson - but I do find Thomas enigmatic. I think he’s definitely improvised this year and has been both better and more consistent. But I still sometimes feel like there is something missing in his play and I don’t know if he has the game to play test rugby successfully. I think he sometimes seems too casual and prone to a needless error - but then he’s also made some great plays this year. His running game seems to have really improved.

I’m not convinced that Wilson is a long term solution either - he could be but at the moment he’s still developing. I feel it would be premature to throw him into a test squad where he is one injury away from being in a match 23. But if Schmidt and co see a higher ceiling for him then I can see logic in taking him on the EOYT ahead of Thomas.

It does highlight our halves continue to be our weakness and the current injuries really aren’t helping.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I thought that at the start of last Super Rugby season re Thomas but he looked a lot more rounded after a good run of starts. Lions game wasn't the best but that's a hell of a pack bearing down on you when you are without your Wallabies.

I think Wilson has a very high ceiling but like Thomas needs a bit of time on the field. He seems to be learning that the finer skills are what separate you know. You don't get away with rough skills on the back of athleticism in the pro environment. If you refine the bag of tricks, then having the physical skills is an asset. In my eyes Wilson reminds me of Luke Burgess with a better pass.

 

[Adam84]

I agree at this point - I think it’s just too early for Wilson - but I do find Thomas enigmatic. I think he’s definitely improvised this year and has been both better and more consistent. But I still sometimes feel like there is something missing in his play and I don’t know if he has the game to play test rugby successfully. I think he sometimes seems too casual and prone to a needless error - but then he’s also made some great plays this year. His running game seems to have really improved.

I’m not convinced that Wilson is a long term solution either - he could be but at the moment he’s still developing. I feel it would be premature to throw him into a test squad where he is one injury away from being in a match 23. But if Schmidt and co see a higher ceiling for him then I can see logic in taking him on the EOYT ahead of Thomas.

It does highlight our halves continue to be our weakness and the current injuries really aren’t helping.

Agree on Thomas being enigmatic, I think his skillset(passing, running, kicking) are all good without really been exceptional in any area..

My concern with him early was his temperament, too easily distracted complaining to the ref or getting upset about decisions or mistakes without focussing on the game, which seems to have improved this year. His game control and maturity certainly has improved.

At test level I’ll take him for depth given the experience he has developed, but would be concerned if he were the chosen starter.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Wilson has a very high ceiling but like Thomas needs a bit of time on the field. He seems to be learning that the finer skills are what separate you know. You don't get away with rough skills on the back of athleticism in the pro environment. If you refine the bag of tricks, then having the physical skills is an asset. In my eyes Wilson reminds me of Luke Burgess with a better pass.

I thought Wilson's technical skills improved massively in 2025, particularly his kicking.

I think he's got a high ceiling and isn't too far away from realising it. It wouldn't surprise me if he's the third halfback taken on the end of year tour.