3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[RugbyFuture]

especially with the commercialisation of the uni scector rugby should capitalise on the potential sponsorships each ande very franchise, rep team and club can have with uni's.

I know UWS are now sponsoring both the GWS giants and WS Wanderers as well as an established link with the penrith panthers. those codes can have that uni, lets make sure we take the rest.....

Though UWS would be a great partner with a new western syd rams. They're cynical there of experience sports and culturally significant contributions.

(....if anyone seeing this post has links to a new franchise being formed though, they should give me a job and Ill give them the contact....)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Funny how people seem to get upset with public funds being wasted/squandered by Sydney Uni when Uni Rugby is mentioned (despite all the evidence to the contrary that there is no public monies tied up in the SURC), yet no one seems to think that this is anything untoward with USW sponsoring GWS Giants Contact Netball team, or the WS Wanderers diveball team.

Does UWS not receive any public monies?

 

[TOCC]

or because they are from other codes and rugby we typically aren't concerned about them

 

[RugbyFuture]

well it actually goes well beyond that hugh, where UWS money is from the universities direct budget, much of the investment that USyd have in their rugby and university sport from my understanding comes from membership fees, SSAF and contributions to a much greater extent than possible out west (could be something to do with all alumni hating UWS once they leave) so theres much more money from the public purse going into these deals than at USyd most likely.

 

[hawktrain]

Watching the SA 7's has given me a thought - would it be possible, and if so would it be successful, to add a 7's team to each NRC club? The 7's game could be a curtain raiser and be used to promote the growth of the sevens game, a way to develop players for the World Series, and it would add 15 minutes of quality entertainment to the match day. Plus, if fans get to the ground 30 minutes earlier to watch the sevens, its another 30 minutes to sell them food and drinks for the venue.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Curtain raisers immediately prior to the main game have gone the way of the Dodo.

Most Soup or Test match agreements allow both teams free and exclusive access to 1/2 the oval for at least 30 minutes prior to kick off. The teams use this time to warm up and to acclimitise to the playing environment in prevailing conditions.

 

[TOCC]

Watching the SA 7's has given me a thought - would it be possible, and if so would it be successful, to add a 7's team to each NRC club? The 7's game could be a curtain raiser and be used to promote the growth of the sevens game, a way to develop players for the World Series, and it would add 15 minutes of quality entertainment to the match day. Plus, if fans get to the ground 30 minutes earlier to watch the sevens, its another 30 minutes to sell them food and drinks for the venue.

To be honest, the topic of 7's in Australia is better left to another thread, more can be done in terms of development for 7's within Australia but i don't think the new NRC clubs are the answer. A lot of independent clubs within Australia and in the Asia Pacific region have thrown considerable funding behind their own 7's teams(i.e Sunnybank Rugby, Auckland Rugby, Borneo Eagles) and organisers have established their own tournaments, rather then start from scratch i think these tournaments and teams should be rationalised into some sort of nation round robin.

 

[wamberal]

Funny how people seem to get upset with public funds being wasted/squandered by Sydney Uni when Uni Rugby is mentioned (despite all the evidence to the contrary that there is no public monies tied up in the SURC), yet no one seems to think that this is anything untoward with USW sponsoring GWS Giants Contact Netball team, or the WS Wanderers diveball team.

Does UWS not receive any public monies?

We get upset because of the damage to the game at the club level, Hugh, by the existence of a dominant entity scooping up players that they do nothing to create (they are not a district club, they do not do anything meaningful for kids at all - other than a bit of window-dressing). Does that not concern you a bit? Or are you happy to see them winning just about everything for the forseeable future, destroying the SS along the way?

I would not have a problem if they sponsored Penriff or Parramatta. That is kind of the point, isn't it - they are only interested in themselves, not the game.

 

[Done that]

Precisely, which is why the scenarios mentioned above are pure fantasy...

?
Are you suggesting that there are no players in a club competition ,e.g. the Shute Shield , who do not have contracts with their club ?

 

[Slim 293]

No, what I'm suggesting is that the clubs have no power over players contracted to the ARU, and no player looking to advance their development in the game is going to choose a club over a higher tiered competition..........

Having said all that, I don't think the clubs have the gall to take on the sports governing body to prevent any player being involved in higher levels of competition...........

 

[Jets]

Surely if a club did have a contract with a player it would be around match payments rather than upfront payments? If a club were to pay 4 guys $10K a year and they were all injured then the club has wasted $40K. Better to pay them per match so the guys on the field each week are getting rewarded.
Anyway the payment of players at this level is a waste of money as it could be better spent on other areas, in my view. How clubs that are struggling to stay afloat are supposed to be paying guys baffles me.

 

[TOCC]

Interesting perspective, whilst there is obviously a level of unevenness to the whole Shute Shield and Sydney Rugby competition I'm not entirely sure whether Sydney University is to blame or the performance of other under-performing clubs is to blame.

If Sydney University were removed from the equation, would the calibre and players produced by the competition be of the same level they are today? Is it a case that Sydney Universities existence sets level of professionalism and player development that drives other clubs to improve their own.

Considering Sydney Uni provides a large contingent of players to the Tahs, would they have achieved the required Super Rugby standard if they weren't involved in a program like Sydney Uni's? Would those players be of the same standard if they were involved in lesser resourced programs like Penrith or Parramatta.

I think its an interesting topic, there is obviously a lot of parochialism involved especially from those on this board who are closely involved and even employed by some of the aforementioned clubs.

 

[Done that]

The point I have made above is not whether a player would likely choose a higher competition over a club competition ,or whether a club would have "the gall"to take issue with the ARU , but
whether some players have individual contracts with a club,which I know for a fact they do , & consequently what action the club may take ,if they chose to ,should conflict arise.
Clubs , in virtually all cases ,support their players ambitions to play at a higher level, (often at a cost to the club however), otherwise it is unlikely that
a player would sign with that club in the first instance.
The suggestion that players in the club competition can be forced to play as amateurs , in reality ,is pie in the sky.

 

[Done that]

Surely if a club did have a contract with a player it would be around match payments rather than upfront payments? If a club were to pay 4 guys $10K a year and they were all injured then the club has wasted $40K. Better to pay them per match so the guys on the field each week are getting rewarded.
Anyway the payment of players at this level is a waste of money as it could be better spent on other areas, in my view. How clubs that are struggling to stay afloat are supposed to be paying guys baffles me.

The argument as to whether a player is paid per match only with no up front payments ,would also apply to those playing at a higher level also would it not?
However how they might be paid is irrelevant here.

Also , no doubt some clubs are struggling financially because they are attempting to remain competitive , & to attract quality players to that club they offer inducements.

 

[RugbyFuture]

I just think USyd has the ability to attract the natural talent to one playing pool through engagement with the university simultaneous to the club rugby stuff.

Development probably wouldn't be the same quality if it was conducted the same way, but then again it would be done differently without the behemoth swallowing up the best and brightest from across the sydney region.

Considering eastwood were looking at strong partnerships with MacU a couple of years ago I think rather than complaining about USyd some of the clubs could try and forge incredibly strong links with their regional uni's and come up with a similar ability to conduct educational opportunities along with club involvement.

I don't think clubs are underperforming by choice, rather through unsustainable development or lack of commercial prospects. No fault of their own that in some areas club rugby is a very very niche product.

 

[refugee]

A well financed club may contract players and then charge for the players services to 3tier , or higher.
Possible???

 

[Jets]

The argument as to whether a player is paid per match only with no up front payments ,would also apply to those playing at a higher level also would it not?
However how they might be paid is irrelevant here.

Also , no doubt some clubs are struggling financially because they are attempting to remain competitive , & to attract quality players to that club they offer inducements.

I think it's a different case with the elite players. Once you reach the professional level you should be paid a salary and a per match expense. Club land is a different beast.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Talk about clubs putting money into players and how they have some kind of claim to them is interesting.

In the AFL when a player is drafter the club he is drafted from receives a payment from the AFL/New Club as a type of remuneration. From memory it depends on where they go in the draft but even the #1 picks club wouldn’t get more than about $2000

Maybe we can pay the Shield clubs a nominal fee once they are recruited.

Maybe then they will give up on the claim they feel they have on these players.

 

[Lee Grant]

Also says that Fox wants to broadcast games on a Thursday night. Once again not such a bad problem, if they are paying $1million for an unproven product it's only fair that they try and extract the most use out of it.

As I posted somewhere last week, this was the indication that folks at the Tahs got wind of some weeks ago, and it was because Foxsports didn't have a lot of product for Thursday.

in 2006 The ARU could get no TV broadcaster interested in the ARC starting in 2007, and had to pay the ABC to show a game on Saturday and another on Sunday.

If that $1 mill. broadcasting rights figure is correct, that is some progress in seven years. The next step is to come up with $2 mill. in sponsorship to satisfy a putative $3 mill. total annual budget

In 2006 the ARU knew that they weren't going to get much revenue, and they didn't budget for much, but they under-estimated the costs.

Despite all the forthright discussion in rugby forums in 2006 about the 2007 ARC (and most of the same issues are being discussed again) the ARC ended up ticking all the rugby boxes.

Let's trust that the $2 mill. sponsorship figure is the right number required and is attained.

We don't want a repeat of putting ticks in the rugby boxes but crosses in the financial ones.
.

 

[wamberal]

I just think USyd has the ability to attract the natural talent to one playing pool through engagement with the university simultaneous to the club rugby stuff.

They also have a central location, which is a great asset in attracting young players. As pointed out earlier, they can put all their considerable financial and other advantages into a very narrow focus, themselves and their own immediate success. They do not have to worry about the game at the grassroots level. The district clubs have a wider focus.

When I played club rugby, many years ago, the ranks of SU's teams comprised undergraduates in the main. It was pretty standard for players to leave that club, and go to play for a district club when they moved into their professional life.

From my point of view, the future of club rugby in Sydney is at stake. I am obviously affected by my own experiences, but I took up the game because there was a district club (Eastwood) that I could identify with. How many young kids are going to take up the game because they identify with Sydney University?

Conversely, how many kids in areas like Penrith, Parramatta, and other under performing districts, will be turned off the game because their local club loses, and loses, and loses?

We need a more level playing field, we need to do whatever we can to strengthen the genuine district clubs. As a final point, I strongly believe that some of the products of the Camperdown Corporation would have been much more competitive at a the higher level, if they had had to go and play for a struggling club. Winning every week does not teach you much, IMHO. Winning games when you should have lost, or fighting hard, but still losing - and coming back to fight again next week - that is what builds the sort of champions we need in New South Wales, and for Australia.