3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Gnostic]

TWAS - I was not protecting my patch of grass as you put it. I do not think any proposal that doesn't directly involves the clubs in their current format will be successful. The ARC was launched at exactly the right time, in a RWC year the interest in Rugby was at its height, especially since it had been on the slide ever since the 2003 RWC. It needed to continue and build from their and create a following and fan base for those inception clubs. The issue now is the fan base for all Rugby has all but dissolved. Those of us that infest this and other Rugby specific sites do not really grasp this sometimes I feel. Given the shocking state of the ARU finances as exposed on this site some months ago now, how can any competition be run that is not self supporting in a very short space of time.

To do that any proposal must capitalise on the current remaining strengths in the game. As others have said the finals of the Shute Shield were of a very high standard. Hence my idea of restricting the field to just those sides in the semis.

I see this argument about not having the tribal feel as a bit like the ARL when they cut Newtown. I grew up with Newtown, my father working with a number of the first grade players, when they were cut I left the game as well. In the same way I watched the ARC game but had no attachment and a base level of interest only to see how some of the stars went. Now bearing in mind that none of the stars will be playing in this proposed 3rd tier, or at best the fringe players, I doubt that I would be setting aside time in my calendar to watch, and that is from a rusted on Rugby nut.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave Beat this all seems to centre on the previously mentioned notion of "protecting you're patch of grass". As said it would become augmented as players would draw back to the stronger clubs.

You complain about there being no incentive for clubs to develop players, yet you want Super Rugby franchises to contract their players, and then let them play for their old club against their own academy teams?

People have to accept the notion, that the clubs don't own their players once they take up professional contracts. That's just a fact of life. An increasing number of players are now playing for ITM Cup teams due to the higher standard as this appears to be a better development, and this will continue until we have a comp of that standard here. One that spreads the talent amongst 12 or so teams, then excludes the top talent from certain clubs because only 5 Shute Shield teams would play in it, does not do that. That's part of professionalism. Club rugby simply isn't our third tier. The fact that it is split across 5 cities diluting the quality, and that the strongest comp still has too many teams to have a concentrate of the amount of players almost ready for Super Rugby is why it is not our third tier and cannot be.

Both for commercial and logistical reasons it needs to be somewhat national (covering most of Super Rugby regions) and also to maintain the integrity and quality, there cannot be too great a number of teams for it to truly be effective.

But hey, everybody (Not specifically having a go at you Dave. You're arguments are quite reasonable and I can understand your point of view), keep protecting those patches of grass. But pretty soon none of us will have anything to protect as the game goes down the gurgler.

Thanks for being fair in your response, yep "protecting our patch" - it would be a worry if i didnt.

Super players returning / Clubs owning players, 2 sides of that arguement, I'm all for players stepping up to Super Rugby but I'd like to see them come back to Shute / Premier.
To assist in developing the Force / Rebs / Brumbies local comp I suggested they have acadamies so their players that are not yet ready get some exposure at the next 3T level.
That suggestion enables them to step up rather than the Force / Rebs / Brumbies fielding a full professional outfit in this talked about 3T.
The provinances are always talking about giving their club players exposure - this idea does that.

Again only ideas, either Top 5, or zone

 

[Tah and feathered]

Just with S15 players returning to there clubs why not just leave it too the players
The players who are patinent about there clubs will return the ones who are not will play in there local comp.

 

[Bairdy]

Solution to 3rd tier comp: Gradually send our non-Wallaby Super 15 players over to the ITM Cup, and prevent the the cream of the NZ rugby crop from rising up the ranks

 

[Joe King]

TWAS - I was not protecting my patch of grass as you put it. I do not think any proposal that doesn't directly involves the clubs in their current format will be successful. The ARC was launched at exactly the right time, in a RWC year the interest in Rugby was at its height, especially since it had been on the slide ever since the 2003 RWC. It needed to continue and build from their and create a following and fan base for those inception clubs. The issue now is the fan base for all Rugby has all but dissolved. Those of us that infest this and other Rugby specific sites do not really grasp this sometimes I feel. Given the shocking state of the ARU finances as exposed on this site some months ago now, how can any competition be run that is not self supporting in a very short space of time.

To do that any proposal must capitalise on the current remaining strengths in the game. As others have said the finals of the Shute Shield were of a very high standard. Hence my idea of restricting the field to just those sides in the semis.

I see this argument about not having the tribal feel as a bit like the ARL when they cut Newtown. I grew up with Newtown, my father working with a number of the first grade players, when they were cut I left the game as well. In the same way I watched the ARC game but had no attachment and a base level of interest only to see how some of the stars went. Now bearing in mind that none of the stars will be playing in this proposed 3rd tier, or at best the fringe players, I doubt that I would be setting aside time in my calendar to watch, and that is from a rusted on Rugby nut.

I might be mistaken, but I thought there were several stars unavailable in 2007 due to RWC commitments. I thought 2008 would have been a better start.

In any case, I don't think a third tier has the same potential as the ARC anymore. That window is closed for several reasons including as you say, no Wallaby stars available anymore.

I don't think we can expect the purpose of the 3rd tier to be how we compete with other codes, or even attract new fans. The main purpose needs to be to develop players, and provide the step between club and Super Rugby. So I think we all agree, it needs to be financially viable. It doesn't need to make money. It just can't be a financial burden.

If a play-off between the best clubs from the various comps can do all that, then I'm all for it. But would it be able to include all the non-test Super Rugby players? That's my main consern.

 

[kiap]

Who really knows what's going on?

Funds sought for a third tier to build depth in rugby talent pool​

​

Bret Harris, The Australian: October 23, 2013 12:00AM​

​

THE ARU is urgently seeking funding from broadcast and sponsorship partners for two development competitions it hopes will provide more depth in the Australian rugby talent pool.​

​

It is understood the ARU board agreed in principle at its meeting in Sydney yesterday to the establishment of a Super B competition and a national club competition, pending the securing of funding.​

​

The Super B competition would run from February to March with games being played as Super Rugby curtain-raisers. The national club competition would be played in September and October.​

​

Leading clubs in Brisbane and Sydney - or the amalgamation of clubs - could be invited to take part along with teams from Canberra, Melbourne and Perth. It is understood the national club competition is being resisted by some Sydney clubs.​

​

At this stage it seems the Super B competition has more chance of going ahead. The ARU has long identified the need for a third-tier competition to bridge the gap between club and Super Rugby, but has never found an affordable model.​

​

Meanwhile, the ARU has appointed Brisbane-based company director and a former partner with law firm Minter Ellison, Nerolie Withnall, to the board to replace Peter Cosgrove, who has retired.​

​

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...y-e6frg7o6-1226744801241#sthash.7yXoDhU1.dpuf​

 

[Dave Beat]

TWAS - I was not protecting my patch of grass as you put it. I do not think any proposal that doesn't directly involves the clubs in their current format will be successful. The ARC was launched at exactly the right time, in a RWC year the interest in Rugby was at its height, especially since it had been on the slide ever since the 2003 RWC. It needed to continue and build from their and create a following and fan base for those inception clubs. The issue now is the fan base for all Rugby has all but dissolved. Those of us that infest this and other Rugby specific sites do not really grasp this sometimes I feel. Given the shocking state of the ARU finances as exposed on this site some months ago now, how can any competition be run that is not self supporting in a very short space of time.

To do that any proposal must capitalise on the current remaining strengths in the game. As others have said the finals of the Shute Shield were of a very high standard. Hence my idea of restricting the field to just those sides in the semis.

I see this argument about not having the tribal feel as a bit like the ARL when they cut Newtown. I grew up with Newtown, my father working with a number of the first grade players, when they were cut I left the game as well. In the same way I watched the ARC game but had no attachment and a base level of interest only to see how some of the stars went. Now bearing in mind that none of the stars will be playing in this proposed 3rd tier, or at best the fringe players, I doubt that I would be setting aside time in my calendar to watch, and that is from a rusted on Rugby nut.

Thanks for batting for me, and I concur with most of your points - BUT - TWAS even used my name when referencing "patch of grass". Yep I am.

Funds sought for a third tier to build depth in rugby talent pool​

​

Bret Harris, The Australian: October 23, 2013 12:00AM​

​

THE ARU is urgently seeking funding from broadcast and sponsorship partners for two development competitions it hopes will provide more depth in the Australian rugby talent pool. ​

​

​

Could the well run clubs bring some of the sponsor ship (whether it be zone, or top 5 teams).​

​

I can't see that I will follow a Super B side, but I would follow "my patch" whether it be seen as stand alone or zone.​

​

​

​

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Who really knows what's going on?

Funds sought for a third tier to build depth in rugby talent pool​

​

Bret Harris, The Australian: October 23, 2013 12:00AM​

​

THE ARU is urgently seeking funding from broadcast and sponsorship partners for two development competitions it hopes will provide more depth in the Australian rugby talent pool.​

​

It is understood the ARU board agreed in principle at its meeting in Sydney yesterday to the establishment of a Super B competition and a national club competition, pending the securing of funding.​

​

The Super B competition would run from February to March with games being played as Super Rugby curtain-raisers. The national club competition would be played in September and October.​

​

Leading clubs in Brisbane and Sydney - or the amalgamation of clubs - could be invited to take part along with teams from Canberra, Melbourne and Perth. It is understood the national club competition is being resisted by some Sydney clubs.​

​

At this stage it seems the Super B competition has more chance of going ahead. The ARU has long identified the need for a third-tier competition to bridge the gap between club and Super Rugby, but has never found an affordable model.​

​

Meanwhile, the ARU has appointed Brisbane-based company director and a former partner with law firm Minter Ellison, Nerolie Withnall, to the board to replace Peter Cosgrove, who has retired.​

​

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...y-e6frg7o6-1226744801241#sthash.7yXoDhU1.dpuf​

Wasn't their gripe regarding the ARC about not being involved and wanting a national clubchampionship instead? Now they have the opportunity some are trying to scuttle what they wanted in 2007. This is bloody ridiculous.

We should just go with a 6 team competition based around the current Super Rugby franchises and add one more in either Sydney or Newcastle. Play it after club season and be done with it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Pulver wants a Western Sydney team http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...club-competition/story-e6frg7o6-1226745533671

 

[Jets]

It makes sense but he wants someone else to put up the money. It's an area with huge potential to grow but I think a new comp will need to make some concessions for the Shute Clubs with some political clout.

 

[kiap]

Wasn't their gripe regarding the ARC about not being involved and wanting a national clubchampionship instead? Now they have the opportunity some are trying to scuttle what they wanted in 2007. This is bloody ridiculous.

Yep, seems like wanting to preserve a piece of empire.

Are they all on the same song sheet, though? A month or so back University was the big enemy to the rest of them.

 

[Sluggy]

I do not think any proposal that doesn't directly involves the clubs in their current format will be successful. ... any proposal must capitalise on the current remaining strengths in the game.

+1

Why try and invent teams and hope someone watches them, when you can build on existing club loyalties? Why invent an Adelaide team when you could bring the NSW Country Cockies into a B Super, along with their existing history & supporters?

 

[wamberal]

+1

Why try and invent teams and hope someone watches them, when you can build on existing club loyalties? Why invent an Adelaide team when you could bring the NSW Country Cockies into a B Super, along with their existing history & supporters?

Because the existing clubs have tiny supporter bases? We need to do something radical, something that brings in a lot of new supporters relatively quickly, otherwise you and your buddies will have the game all to yourself, all alone at Camperdown, winning everything every year.

If we cannot find ways to tap into the untapped markets like greater Western Sydney, we are doomed. We might be doomed already, actually - and we will be if the Wobbs do not start winning again pretty bloody soon.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Talking to very well connected people from 3 of the clubs mooted for inclusion in the 3rd tier I am led to believe that they all think it unworkable and one of those clubs, who you might think would back self interest over everything, is concerned that it may kill the game.
There is a real danger that in proceeding in the proposed way the game will fall between two stools: the shute shield clubs will be unable to survive because their best will be off to the clubs playing in the National Club comp and the national club comp will gather insufficient interest to survive and will fold at the end of the 2 year deal mooted to have been done with Fox.
If that happens there will effectively be no Shute Shield to fall back on.
We are at a crossroads at all levels.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

According to anarticle in the The Aus. the ARU require $3m to get this thing up and running and sre looking to find this via broadcast and sponsorship deals.

If the fear is that this will decimate the SHute Shield, the answer seems farily obvious. Clubs should look to form combined sides. That way the Shute Shield will remain vital in th pathway as players will need to participate in order to gain selection. It would avoid the situation mooted above.

 

[Jets]

I think regional teams are the way to go. It will make the Shute part of the process of getting into the teams. In Brisbane we could have North and South. In Sydney you could work out North, East, South and West. Add Melbourne, Can erra and Perth and you've got a 9 team comp.

Maybe add a 3rd Brisbane team.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[happyjack]

Hate to rain on the party but T3 is a done deal due to JON getting a 3 way split on SXV revenues but allowing NZ and RSA to negotiate on 3rd Tier themselves. Basically they have talked down SXV and pushed broadcasting payments into T3 which was not part of the pool split.
While it might lose money Australia has to have a T3 to stop getting gutted at the broadcast table.
But with no money they need Sydney Uni, Tuggeranong, Sunnybank and anyone else with deep pockets or entrepreneurial skills to step up at $250K per year.
Club Rugby is about to change forever. People may not like it but as a great Wallaby captain and a Rugby administrator used to say, "the commercial reality will always crush the myth of tradition".

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think regional teams are the way to go. It will make the Shute part of the process of getting into the teams. In Brisbane we could have North and South. In Sydney you could work out North, East, South and West. Add Melbourne, Can erra and Perth and you've got a 9 team comp.

Maybe add a 3rd Brisbane team.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It would make the most sense while maintaining the prominence of the current structure. Fairest too.

Inside Shoulder mentioned a mooted 2 year deal. That sort of aligns with the current TV deal. Perhaps its a positioning so it can be included in the next round of negotiations.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm told fox are on board so there's the broadcaster.
As @happyjack says the ARU has to have a 3rd tier or it loses revenue in the broadcast deal.
As far as joint bids go for Sydney there is possibly only 1 open spot after impassioned pleas by a famous son of one club to his old playing mate.

 

[I like to watch]

I have never seen in any sport,or any business,where such a monumental change in how the business/sport will operate,such a lack of planning,communication and stakeholder involvement.
Why the manic desire to have something/anything in place for 2014?
Broadcasting rights don't expire till 2016.