3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[suckerforred]

I think the main way to support it is to buy the memberships, sign up for pay-TV, wear the merchandise.

As turning up to the games, I read this on the Roar (not sure if it's quite right though):

"Meanwhile, the pressure is off in regards to attracting crowds, with gate revenue to be a bonus rather than a requirement for the model to work."

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/12/11/aru-proposes-a-new-national-rugby-championship/

I haven't seen the Roar article, but I would have to disagree to an extent. I think that the gate takings are what is going to keep the teams in the comp. Even if it is the 'cream' it will be what makes it affordable for the clubs. It will be what funds growth & improvement in the clubs.

But anyway we support will be good. Games, merch, tv anything that makes it blatently apparent that this comp is wanted & supported.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The whole point is that the talent is already concentrated. Australia has five Super Rugby franchises. That's - what? - about 200 professional Rugby players when you take account of the extended player squads. And it doesn't include the various academies and ARU junior development squads.

So the question becomes, what to do with the 160-odd professional players who aren't in the Wallaby squad once the Super Rugby season finishes. Now, there's one school of thought that says, you create a competition for them to play in against each other, with a few other players tossed in to make up the numbers. And yes, man for man, teams in such a competition would be stronger than club teams. What that achieves is that those players turn out in a competition that is weaker than the one they have just been playing in. I don't really see how they benefit form this. The only players who stand to gain are the handful of club players who get to run around in the competition and call themselves representative players for a few weeks.

You don't just need to go back to 2007 to see that this achieved nothing much. The same thing was tried in the Ricoh Cup back in around 2000 or 2001. That competition allowed a few guys to wear State jumpers who otherwise would not have done so. That was nice for them. Not one went on to become a Wallaby.

The other option, which no-one likes because it's too hard, is to strengthen the base of the pyramid. Make the second half of the club competition as strong as possible by re-injecting the professionals into it. That could help to reinvigorate the game's base and provide a better foundation for the game.

The idea that the new competition will be "revenue-neutral" is wishful thinking. There is one potential provider of broadcasting revenue for the competition - the same company that already pays for the Super Rugby competition. The idea that Fox Sports can be treated as an ATM is just nuts - negotiations tend to be difficult when you're completely reliant on the party with whom you're negotiating. And it says very little about the health of the game.

I know, I know, the argument's over and I lost. But here are my three predictions: it will lose money, crowds will be dismal, and not one player will emerge from the competition who goes on to become a Wallaby. Don't tell me I'm wrong now - come back in a year and do it.

You're wrong. Certainly in regards to players emerging from the ARC.

In terms of Fox paying for the broadcast rights. Surely that's an improvement on what the ARU had to pay the ABC to broadcast the ARC in 2007.

There appears to be a significant difference in terms of well the Sydney clubs with the NRC and the ARC. That being as Gordon has already suggested, they are looking to get together and enter joint bids. Which means they are looking to buy in. I think the crowds will be improved upon with the clubs supporting the structure by taking ownership of the entities.

 

[suckerforred]

One of the things that is sitting uncomfortably with me is the 'innovative law changes'. I notice that this has not been mentioned in the latest ARU media releases but it is something that Bill seems to have had front and centre in all mentions of the concept to this date.

I thought that all law changes need to be approved/sanctions by the IRB, so how are we going to change the laws in our little part of the world to make the game more exciting? Also, would changing the laws at this level defeat the purpose to a certain extent when it comes to developing the player for Super Rugby and International level?

I am not saying that what ever he has in mind may not be a good thing. I am just thinking if we really want to be tinkering around the edges to much.

 

[TOCC]

Now, there's one school of thought that says, you create a competition for them to play in against each other, with a few other players tossed in to make up the numbers. And yes, man for man, teams in such a competition would be stronger than club teams. What that achieves is that those players turn out in a competition that is weaker than the one they have just been playing in. I don't really see how they benefit form this. The only players who stand to gain are the handful of club players who get to run around in the competition and call themselves representative players for a few weeks.

So by this logic Test players shouldn't return to Super Rugby because it will only be of a benefit to non-test players :/

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

One of the things that is sitting uncomfortably with me is the 'innovative law changes'. I notice that this has not been mentioned in the latest ARU media releases but it is something that Bill seems to have had front and centre in all mentions of the concept to this date.

I thought that all law changes need to be approved/sanctions by the IRB, so how are we going to change the laws in our little part of the world to make the game more exciting? Also, would changing the laws at this level defeat the purpose to a certain extent when it comes to developing the player for Super Rugby and International level?

I am not saying that what ever he has in mind may not be a good thing. I am just thinking if we really want to be tinkering around the edges to much.

Well, the SARU will be trialing a two ref system in the Varsity Cup next year. I don't think it's a IRB mandated trial either. I remember some time ago that after his trip to the IRB he was given the clearance to trial new laws in domestic competition (his original Super B concept).

I think it will be dependant on the tweaks they make. I think a more litigious use of the yellow card to prevent cynical infringing that is often employed by teams with the view that conceding three points is better than 5 or possibly 7 could be good. No three warnings, just a card.

That and I wouldn't mind seeing penalty shots becoming drop kicks for goal. I think it would add another element of skill to the game and would change the thinking in regards to scoring. Coupled with the stricter use of the yellow card and I think it would be an interesting balance.

 

[I like to watch]

I hope thats just the mainly dailys one sided skew coming through, I wouldn't travel there to watch a rugby team, I would go to North Sydney Oval however.

Why, because it is tarnished by those awful League types that usually play there?
Brookie is a great venue to watch footy.
I have been to North Sydney oval a few times for a night game,I am still trying to find a good vantage point to watch the game,and either my eyesight is going or the lights need upgrading.
Although the burgers are good there!

 

[Braveheart81]

North Sydney Oval is a great venue overall but it will always be somewhat inferior as a rugby ground due to it being an oval.

Basing NRC teams at rectangular fields surely makes sense to increase the likelihood of fans attending.

 

[wobbly]

A bit confused here.
Is the Super B thingy still happening (announced by Pulver earlier this year - 50 min matches between Oz Super Reserve teams as curtain raisers to super derbys)?

What's this Pacific Cup thingy being played in March / April featuring 5 Aussie teams? Did that supersede the Super B concept? Are our presumably reserve teams going to be competitive against tier b international teams (Fiji, Samoa, Japan! Argentina B)?

Are the players engaged in this comp going to be contracted by Super franchises, centrally or by their NRC franchises?

What sort of ridiculous semi-pro player movements is this structure likely to cause across a season? Is a kid from Southies, going to be splitting his year between Melbourne, Sydney and Perth - with three different coaches and sets of support staff?

 

[Bruce Ross]

One of the things that is sitting uncomfortably with me is the 'innovative law changes'. I notice that this has not been mentioned in the latest ARU media releases but it is something that Bill seems to have had front and centre in all mentions of the concept to this date.

I am not saying that what ever he has in mind may not be a good thing. I am just thinking if we really want to be tinkering around the edges to much.

There is another issue, sfr. AS CEO isn't his primary responsibility the management, administration and finances of Australian rugby? Or has he got all that under control and now has spare time to indulge in dilettantish tinkering with the Laws of the game - and not just with the Laws but with its very spirit and ethos? He has already decreed on innumerable occasions that we are to have "smart, creative, running rugby", whatever that actually means.

Now the man may well have been an avid student of rugby while at the Shore school but there is not much evidence of real involvement since then. A very large number of the contributors to this forum have displayed real passion and commitment to the game over decades but no one is interested in drawing on their accumulated knowledge and wisdom.

You're being paid an absolute truckload to run the business of Australian rugby, Bill. Focus on that.
.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A bit confused here.
Is the Super B thingy still happening (announced by Pulver earlier this year - 50 min matches between Oz Super Reserve teams as curtain raisers to super derbys)?

What's this Pacific Cup thingy being played in March / April featuring 5 Aussie teams? Did that supersede the Super B concept? Are our presumably reserve teams going to be competitive against tier b international teams (Fiji, Samoa, Japan! Argentina B)?

Are the players engaged in this comp going to be contracted by Super franchises, centrally or by their NRC franchises?

What sort of ridiculous semi-pro player movements is this structure likely to cause across a season? Is a kid from Southies, going to be splitting his year between Melbourne, Sydney and Perth - with three different coaches and sets of support staff?

Okay.

The Super B concept appears to be a non-starter. Instead there will be an expansion of the Pacific Cup that's been running for a few years now. With a two month window there's potential to get 6 to 8 games in which will be a huge positive for the Super Rugby A squads.

From what I can gather Super Rugby players will be distrubuted throughout the NRC clubs. So you would imagine the Melbourne, Perth and Canberra squads are going to be pretty stacked. They mentioned a modest slary cap so there may be some enternal contracting to NRC clubs on a season by season basis but it'd be doubtful players would be moving interstate to play.

Sort of anwers the club player scenario already with the above paragraphs. I imagine a player from Southern Districts will unlikely be moving to Melbourne for the tournament. More likely they'll chase a spot in theit local NRC squad as it is intended.

 

[suckerforred]

WCR - Oh I see. I suppose we will have to wait and see what he has in mind. and where the decisions are coming from. I just don't want to see wholesale changes to the game.

Bruce - You are getting a little angry it seems. Not that I don't agree. You might just need a glass or two of wine.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce - You are getting a little angry it seems. Not that I don't agree. You might just need a glass or two of wine.

No, sfr, not angry. I'm just being forthright.

As for your suggestion, being an avid follower of your tweets I get the impression that you might prescribe "a glass or two of wine" for most things apart from perhaps tinea and hair loss.
.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'd hope they don't go trialling any rule changes that "speed that game up" or some other buzz phrase that will have players not working on some of the primary aspects of traditional rugby. Somewhat loses it's development edge if so.

 

[the coach]

No, sfr, not angry. I'm just being forthright.

As for your suggestion, being an avid follower of your tweets I get the impression that you might prescribe "a glass or two of wine" for most things apart from perhaps tinea and hair loss.
.

Wine has stopped me worrying about hair loss and I've been told that bathing the feet in red wine prevents tinea

 

[RugbyFuture]

I can quickly name three (and I'm sure there were a whole lot more) players who came to notice in the ARC and who went on to play for the Wallabies - Scott Higginbotham, Ben Alexander and Christian Lealiifano. I fully expect the NRC will similarly bring forward a number of players who will go on to represent at higher levels.

great article from some random fan website a couple of years ago on this topic....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/australian-rugby-shield/

One only needs to look at the commercial for the MRC to prove the point. Whoever came up with the tagline of “you don’t know me….yet” deserves a gold star. Watch and discover why.

 

[suckerforred]

I'd hope they don't go trialling any rule changes that "speed that game up" or some other buzz phrase that will have players not working on some of the primary aspects of traditional rugby. Somewhat loses it's development edge if so.

This is my concern. You just put it better.

Bruce - Wine works for everything.

 

[RugbyFuture]

heres the tv commercial

 

[RugbyFuture]

There is another issue, sfr. AS CEO isn't his primary responsibility the management, administration and finances of Australian rugby? Or has he got all that under control and now has spare time to indulge in dilettantish tinkering with the Laws of the game - and not just with the Laws but with its very spirit and ethos? He has already decreed on innumerable occasions that we are to have "smart, creative, running rugby", whatever that actually means.

Now the man may well have been an avid student of rugby while at the Shore school but there is not much evidence of real involvement since then. A very large number of the contributors to this forum have displayed real passion and commitment to the game over decades but no one is interested in drawing on their accumulated knowledge and wisdom.

You're being paid an absolute truckload to run the business of Australian rugby, Bill. Focus on that.
.

I reckon any variations will be under the control of the head of program for the NRC, John Boultbee AM. One of your uni lot Bruce

 

[Badger]

heres the tv commercial

Brilliant ad. Can't remember seeing it in 2007. So many future Wallabies in there.

Hope the powers that be can come up with something as good. If not, use it again.

 

[swingpass]

[quote="Snort, post: 559689, member: 4676".

You don't just need to go back to 2007 to see that this achieved nothing much. The same thing was tried in the Ricoh Cup back in around 2000 or 2001. That competition allowed a few guys to wear State jumpers who otherwise would not have done so. That was nice for them. Not one went on to become a Wallaby.

I know, I know, the argument's over and I lost. But here are my three predictions: it will lose money, crowds will be dismal, and not one player will emerge from the competition who goes on to become a Wallaby. Don't tell me I'm wrong now - come back in a year and do it.[/quote]

snort i can name 5 players from the rebels (ARC) who went on to play for the Wallabies after 2007,luke burgess, dave dennis, james hanson, matt hodgson and dan palmer.

it may lose money, crowds will OK to good; in melbourne, during the ARC they regularly got more than 4K to home games, and plenty of future wallabies will have their first bigtime public outing