A Proposal For A New Third Tier Competition In Australia

[kiap]

What precisely, churchill's cigar, do "NFL", "NCAA sport" and "BCS" have to do with Stanford Rugby?

The NFL is the National Football League, the highest standard of professional American football in the United States. As of today Stanford Rugby had not been admitted to the NFL.

If Stanford Rugby is admitted then, even if the NFL lasts for a thousand years, men will still say, “This was their finest hour!".

.

 

[churchills cigar]

To al, who misunderstood,
My comment was a rebuttal to 'tornhammys' comment of Stanford being 'club'sport.
I had not properly disseminated his comment to mean 'rugby' I interpreted his comment as referring to Stanford football, torn hammy, I apologise.

I am all too well aware of the differences of NFL, NCAA and BCS.

I did think the discussion was on the model of the third tier being in the mould of NCAA football. If that is not the case well then I apologise.
Bruce, what does NCAA and BCS have to do with Stanford you ask. NCAA is the governing body of college sport in the USA, BCS is the college football championship, Stanford is ranked no seven. At no stage have I said they are in the NFL, i used the term to refer to the code of football, not the organisation. i am fully. Aware that Stanford is not in the NFL.
Stanford is an Ivy League College, university to Aussies and at Nfl (using the term to refer to the game, not the league) they are one of the better performing Ivy League colleges at football.

 

[Quick Hands]

How does 148 games each year in a new third tier competition at a cost of only $160,000 sound?

Find out how I think it can be done at http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/a-proposal-for-australias-third-tier-competition/

I like the concept because, as I've been saying for years, it builds on exisiting clubs and infastructure. This is the way to go and I suggested something similar on one of the other threads.

Creating meaningless franchises as was done the ARC is expensive, creates another level of management, provides more jobs for rugby bureaucrats etc.

Devil is always in the detail, but broadly speaking, what you've suggested is the way to go and the perfect solution does not exist.

To be effective, in my opinion, the competition must be simple to implement, cheap to run and utilise the existing clubs in the major cities.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Stanford is not one of the Ivy League Colleges. Were you the guy looking for the WMDs CC?

We should start a College Football thread later this year.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Is speed crochet a NCAA sport?

The craft of absurdist humour has its frustrations. No matter how ridiculous a concept you advance the real world may have already encompassed it. Following on from my post, for no particular reason I Googled "speed crochet" only to find that it was indeed a sport with International Speed Championships and a world record holder:

The accompanying text explains:

"This video was taken in October 2004 when Lily gained the title of 'Fastest Crocheter' at The Knitting and Stitching Show in London. Lisa Gentry from Lousiana currently holds the world record. For more information about the International Speed Championships being held in Minnesota 16-17 February see www.ukhandknitting.com"
.

 

[liquor box]

The craft of absurdist humour has its frustrations. No matter how ridiculous a concept you advance the real world may have already encompassed it. Following on from my post, for no particular reason I Googled "speed crochet" only to find that it was indeed a sport with International Speed Championships and a world record holder:

The accompanying text explains:

"This video was taken in October 2004 when Lily gained the title of 'Fastest Crocheter' at The Knitting and Stitching Show in London. Lisa Gentry from Lousiana currently holds the world record. For more information about the International Speed Championships being held in Minnesota 16-17 February see www.ukhandknitting.com"
.

I have always thought extreme ironing is one of the stupidest "sports"

 

[Slim 293]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...s-simon-poidevin/story-e6frg7o6-1226566255436

The ARC in my view was the NBN of Australian rugby," Poidevin said. "Why build something that is already there?​

​

Er........?​

​

"This concept that club players are unprepared to play in Super Rugby, well, how did Hugh Perret go from Eastwood to the Rebels and not miss a beat? How did Dave Harvey go from Norths to the Force and become one of their best players? It's just a fallacy that the clubs aren't preparing players and the gap is too large."​

​

hmmmmmm.........​

 

[qwerty51]

That couldn't be more wrong really.. Hugh Perrett is one of the best club rugby players out there yet when he came into Super Rugby he was anonymous and ineffective. If he thinks Harvey was one of the best Force players there, I ask him why did they not re-sign him?

 

[p.Tah]

Good to see Poido getting in early to criticise new third tier proposals.

The whole point of a thirst tier is to concentrate the talent to improve heir development. A third tier made up of all the clubs doesn't do that. It just gives them more games.

 

[Dave Beat]

Good to see Poido getting in early to criticise new third tier proposals.

The whole point of a thirst tier is to concentrate the talent to improve heir development. A third tier made up of all the clubs doesn't do that. It just gives them more games.

p.Tah he wasn't criticising it, he was saying build and invest in what we have. A number of threads, and input from wise people have said the same. Using and building what we have, will;
Provide greater club support (unlike ARC).
Be far more economical (unlike ARC).

I.e. in Sydney 4 geographical rep teams post Shute Shield comp, would have all clubs involved, and thus supporter interest as it has club and geographic location IMPORTANT.
Include the same in QLD, and include a team from ACT.

Cheers,

 

[p.Tah]

p.Tah he wasn't criticising it, he was saying build and invest in what we have. A number of threads, and input from wise people have said the same. Using and building what we have, will;
Provide greater club support (unlike ARC).
Be far more economical (unlike ARC).

I.e. in Sydney 4 geographical rep teams post Shute Shield comp, would have all clubs involved, and thus supporter interest as it has club and geographic location IMPORTANT.
Include the same in QLD, and include a team from ACT.

Cheers,

Which bit of this new third tier (university comp) wasn't Poivdo criticizing?

I would like the clubs to become the third tier for the reasons you have mentioned, however the only way it will work in the long run is for the smaller less financially well off clubs to drop out. We'll have three of four
super clubs in Sydney. So we'll have Sydney Uni, Randwick, Eastwood and Manly by my reckoning.what happens to Rugby's footprint outside those areas, namely Sydney's West?

I'm not dismissing Poido's suggestion outright. I could be won over if this last question can be answered. Do we go down the path of two tiers? Where the top talent in Sydney is concentrated into these four Super clubs?

 

[TOCC]

I do like his analogy of the NBN network/ARC though, not because I agree with the sentiment rather the context of the debate has similar merits..

Pro: investment in the future with potentially massive returns

Con: costly piece of infrastructure which could burden future generations

 

[Braveheart81]

I do like his analogy of the NBN network/ARC though, not because I agree with the sentiment rather the context of the debate has similar merits..

Pro: investment in the future with potentially massive returns

Con: costly piece of infrastructure which could burden future generations

The other side of that analogy is that the longer we persist with outdated technology, the more we will fall behind the rest of the world.

 

[wamberal]

Investment in the future is a great idea. Now, where's the money?

 

[Torn Hammy]

I always thought a fourth tier university league instead of colts, in which the kids had to attend the uni they played for, was a better idea. You could include a large Tech College for the tradies and make it essential that they all pass their exams.

When they get their degrees they could move on to the meaner leaner SS clubs.

 

[wamberal]

I always thought a fourth tier university league instead of colts, in which the kids had to attend the uni they played for, was a better idea. You could include a large Tech College for the tradies and make it essential that they all pass their exams.

When they get their degrees they could move on to the meaner leaner SS clubs.

Like they do now, you mean?

 

[nomis]

p.Tah he wasn't criticising it, he was saying build and invest in what we have. A number of threads, and input from wise people have said the same. Using and building what we have, will;
Provide greater club support (unlike ARC).
Be far more economical (unlike ARC).

I.e. in Sydney 4 geographical rep teams post Shute Shield comp, would have all clubs involved, and thus supporter interest as it has club and geographic location IMPORTANT.
Include the same in QLD, and include a team from ACT.

I don't think that's what Poido had in mind. That's basically the concept behind the ARC, isn't it?

In any case, it's a good concept. I thought club players use to like getting picked for the Sydney rep team, or even North Harbour/South Harbour.

Or why can't they just let the Super Rugby teams handle it by entering an academy team post Super Rugby - with a couple of extra academies set up in specific geographical locations in NSW and Qld. Play the team under the guise of a location name, and don't expect the comp to compete with the NRL - let it just be a development comp. Link particular clubs with the academy team in their location.

 

[Dave Beat]

Which bit of this new third tier (university comp) wasn't Poivdo criticizing?

I would like the clubs to become the third tier for the reasons you have mentioned, however the only way it will work in the long run is for the smaller less financially well off clubs to drop out. We'll have three of four
super clubs in Sydney. So we'll have Sydney Uni, Randwick, Eastwood and Manly by my reckoning.what happens to Rugby's footprint outside those areas, namely Sydney's West?

I'm not dismissing Poido's suggestion outright. It could be won over if this last question can be answered. Do we go down the path of two tiers? Where the top talent in Sydney is concentrated into these four Super clubs?

He wasn't critising the 3rd tier idea, he was criticising the university idea.
UTS has had a crack in the past with Drummoyne (mid 90's),
UNSW has been around for years, and never got close with promotion / relegation.
Neither of them made it, what makes anybody think a UNI Model will work now without a significant capital investment, it is / would be as brand new as the ARC, why would any of the clubs support it, or their supporters

He like'd the idea of developing what is in place to create a third tier - thats the way I read it any way??????

You say we will have 3 or 4 super clubs - maybe, how will the uni thought change this. I said play Shute Shield and after that comp have a geographic rep comp that will involve the Shute Shield clubs so they and their supporters have an interest. An example;

• Nth Hbr Manly, Warringah, Nths, Gordon.
• Sth Hbr, East, Randwick, Souths, Sydney Uni.
• Western Sydney, Wests, Woods, Parra, Penrith.
• NSW Country, Or Central Coast, Or South Coast, or (Gordon, Uni, Wests).

Have the games shared around the home grounds, so clubs and supporters can follow a team, and also benefit from revenue.

Doesnt the ITM start on completion of Super Rugby? Our third Tier would Commence / follow on after our Shute Shield / Super Rugby.

 

[Dave Beat]

In any case, it's a good concept. I thought club players use to like getting picked for the Sydney rep team, or even North Harbour/South Harbour.

Nomis spot on, as detailed in my post above before reading yours. I enjoyed the old Nth v Sth harbour games even though games were sometimes more trial base for Sydney.

 

[wamberal]

Sydney vs NSW Country was a great fixture, back in the days when country rugby was strong.


Nth vs Sth Harbour was a bit of a giggle, especially when it was two games (NH 1 vs SH 1, NH 2 vs SH 2).