All Black squad to play France.

[Gnostic]

Now that's how to pick a side. All the players arguably the best in their positions (excepting Nonu who continues to be shite at Super level but then turns around and destroys everyone's form based expectations at Test level ).

Just once I would love to see a Wallabies side picked by selecting players on form and then playing a game plan that best utilised the skills represented.

edit :- will say I think Wyatt Crockett is very lucky to be selected. Perhaps they think that enough time has passed since S. Dickenson retired nobody will remember his scrummaging (even though he hasn't changed at all). The French would do well to target him at scrum time as long as they have a technically astute ref with some balls, like Kaplan.

 

[Bairdy]

If Wyatt Crockett packs down against Mas, he will get utterly destroyed. Think back to 2012 Wallabies vs France when Robinson was out-scrummaged.

Who will go on the opposite wing? Ben Smith?

 

[Athilnaur]

Not sure the Kiwis have ever purely selected on form Gnostic. Dagg, A Smith and Nonu are all very light for form. Hore dubious but probably a pass, Mealamu hasn't played much. Perenara is in great form. It seems to me the ABs have always sought out players who step up in the big games.

Those players are seen, rightly I argue, as gold. Once in, you're in and Aaron Smith is a good example. I bet he will play some great test rugby this year.

Then as their career closes every national coach has that dilemma 'does player X have another year left in him, does he still want it?'

 

[Gnostic]

I agree to a certain degree Ath. but one must first display form, the only exception being Nonu. If there is a line call to be made or only inexperienced players in a position an old hand will be selected to mentor them. That is why Mealamu is there, Hore isn't great but he has been one of the best performers in a poor Highlanders side. A. Smith I will grant you is a line call, but probably has the experience advantage over the others.

The key difference is you don't see Carter selected at 15, Dagg selected at 13 etc etc. The only time I can recall that ever happening for the ABs without extensive form in the spot previously was when Deans was coach there. Coincidence?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

To independent observers on this side of the Tasman, that doesn't seem to be too bad a squad to represent NZ based on form and previous abilities.

Is there any internal debate of the nature that we have on this side of the Tasman?

There is as much love shared between the North Island and the South Island as there is between NSW and QLD isn't there?

As it is a religion, the NZers can't all agree on the selections.

 

[ACR]

/snip. As it is a religion, the NZers can't all agree on the selections.

A pretty predictable squad really, injuries opening the way for some while lack of other options keeping some old heads in there.

You can always make a case for 2-3 fringe players. TJP is unlucky, they're going to assume that Smith can gain form behind a front foot forward pack. Cane is lucky to get the 7 all by himself. A few waiting in the wings there. A few players moving overseas have predictably been left out.

The real shame is Kahui's injury prone career.

 

[Dan54]

HJ, there will be a bit of debate, but generally not too many surprises so not a lot. South Island ,North Island thing not too bad, more a provincial based ie Canterbury, Wellington, Auckland etc thing where everyone gets one eyed, but generally only during matches between teams, when it comes to All Blacks there maybe a few moans,but not like the NSW/Reds etc when it comes to selecting for country, where generally when they picked they are in Black so everything else tends to go out the door!!

 

[Dan54]

ACR, while I see your point about Cane being only 7 (although Todd there for first couple of tests), I think Cane is seen as being the annointed next Goat, I tend to agree as I think his game is ideal for international rugby. Probabloy not wanting to invest too much in someone who will probably drop right out on Richie's return. Also interesting to read that Ben Smith has been offered sabbaticals etc as they try to rope in him for 4 years, obviously seen as a mainstay for AB backline !!

 

[FrankLind]

To independent observers on this side of the Tasman, that doesn't seem to be too bad a squad to represent NZ based on form and previous abilities.

Is there any internal debate of the nature that we have on this side of the Tasman?

There is as much love shared between the North Island and the South Island as there is between NSW and QLD isn't there?

As it is a religion, the NZers can't all agree on the selections.

HJ. Most wanted Ali Williams dropped, and I think he was pushed (when he retired). Thank God.

There have been a few journos pissed off with Hansen somewhat (midseason) guaranteeing spots to players who have done the business for him before. Dagg is a good example. But their view on him is he is a big game player. Saying that, I hope Ben Smith gets the start in front of him.

Most thought the Blues' young guns would come into the squad. There is argument over Messam vs Luatua.
I think Ben Afeaki vs Owen Franks is interesting. It seems to me Afeaki is equal in scrummaging but more destructive around the field. Of course Franks is far more experienced.

Rene Ranger is playing well but has to stump up 300,000 NZ to get out of his French contract. He is behind Conrad Smith and Ben Smith in the views of the selectors at center. And there are so many options at wing (Savea, Halai, Piutau, Ben Smith, Corey Jane when uninjured) that it'll be a shitfight to retain a place there. I am still not sure if he can convert Super 15 to test level anyway.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I agree to a certain degree Ath. but one must first display form, the only exception being Nonu. If there is a line call to be made or only inexperienced players in a position an old hand will be selected to mentor them. That is why Mealamu is there, Hore isn't great but he has been one of the best performers in a poor Highlanders side. A. Smith I will grant you is a line call, but probably has the experience advantage over the others.

The key difference is you don't see Carter selected at 15, Dagg selected at 13 etc etc. The only time I can recall that ever happening for the ABs without extensive form in the spot previously was when Deans was coach there. Coincidence?

McAllister at 13, Mils on the right wing, Thomson at 7, Kaino at 8 - all under Henry and all positions none played with any semblance of regularity for thei Super or NPC side. All done to either fit in another player or because of injury.

 

[Gnostic]

Thompson - at 7 when McCaw was out and there were no youngsters such as Todd, Braid was at the Reds and many of us were arguing (and I still do) that when you have no true fetcher 7 you play a counter rucking game that call for a pure power backrow. I have refined my thought on that and see now that it can only work with stringent policing at the breakdown. If hands are allowed in the ruck if even one player binds to an opposition fetcher it will not work, or at best all ball will be slow.
Mils - on the wing could be accepted at part of any two fullback system, much the same as when Goldie was playing on the wing.
Kaino - 8 he really is a 6/8. With Soialo injured I think it was and no McCaw he was probably the best option.
McAlister - yeah that one is baffling. I never saw McAllister as all that good. Wasn't there some dispute surrounding his contract, something about him almost being guarenteed an AB jumper?

These don't rate anywhere near the non-selection of Merhtens and Umaga and the selection of Cullen at 13, or the numerous examples of the tenure at the Wallabies.

 

[Dan54]

Gnostic, Cullen at centre was under Hart as coach, Cullen getting dropped from ABs was unders the esteemed Mitchell/Deans combo!!!

 

[ACT Crusader]

Kaino was poor at the back of the scrum and that was demonstrated at provincial level, so got moved to blindside. Despite that Henry still rtook a massive gamble by playing him there at test level when there were other options - Lauaki for example. Lauaki was more adept at playing that ball at the back than Jerome.

There were strong calls for Latimer to come back into the ABs and Thomson to be played at his normal blindside position. Latimer had been playing good footy and as you say McCaw was crook. But the reasoning I think was Thomo was seen (rightly or wrongly) as the openside cover and they wanted to test him there.

Mils was moved to wing because Leon MacDonald was in the form of his life. MacDonald (along with Nonu) had led the Super rugby comp in broken tackles, and he translated that to Super rugby. So Mils displaced a genuine winger for the sake of a "get all your best on the park" policy.

I guess my point is that all coaches make controversial selections that can be justified one way or another, but nonetheless will nbever ever sit well with the fans.

 

[Bullrush]

I posted this in the other thread but anyway.....

I wonder how Ranger would go at 12. I think he is the best NZ back in Super Rugby at the moment and he's wasted at wing - not to mention that I don't think he has the top-end speed to be a Test wing.

I talk about this guy a lot but I've been watching him a few years now and he gets better with every season. His discipline has improved outta sight this year, he busts tackles, he creates line breaks, works hard at the break-down, pilfers the ball, scores tries......he deserves a chance at Test rugby in the mid-field I reckon.

Who cares if he's signed a contract somewhere else. They've selected him - play him. Just like they did with SBW.

Ben SMith is great at FB.....Ranger is a far better mid-fielder than him though....IMO anyway

 

[FrankLind]

Test teams - The French have a bloody good chance of knocking this AB side over

All Blacks team to play France at Eden Park on Saturday, kick-off 7.35pm is:Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Ben Franks, Ben Afeaki, Jeremy Thrush, Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Rene Ranger.
France: Yoann Huget, Adrien Plante, Florian Fritz, Wesley Fofana, Maxime Medard, Camille Lopez, Maxime Machenaud, Louis Picamoles, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Thierry Dusautoir (c), Yoann Maestri, Sebastien Vahaamahina, Luc Ducalcon, Dimitri Szarzewski, Thomas Domingo. Reserves: Guilhem Guirado, Vincent Debaty, Daniel Kotze, Alexandre Flanquart, Yannick Nyanga, Jean-Marc Doussain, Frederic Michalak, Maxime Mermoz.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Should swap Daag and B. Smith around. Aaron smith has not been firing at all. Ben Franks deserves to start a million times ahead of Wyatt Crockett.

I had hoped for Ben Franks, Dane Coles, Owen Franks, Luke Romano, Brodie Retallick, Liam Messam, Sam Cane, Kieran Read, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Cruden, Julian Savea, Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith, Rene Ranger, Ben Smith

 

[Dan54]

I would of liked to see perhaps B Smith at 15 too Roffs, but all in all nothing there too get to excited over. Most interesting thing will be where he runs Ranger when he comes on, would love to see him get 20 mins at 12, but think ABs would have to be right on top for him to risk that!!

 

[Bullrush]

Bloody hell....Ranger should be starting.

No wonder these guys take off overseas.....

 

[USARugger]

Medard is really not back to form yet. Fulgence will have some issues with the physicality of the ABs pack. Szarzewski getting selected has always confused me. Rookie fly half, oh dear.

 

[fatprop]

Bloody hell..Ranger should be starting.

No wonder these guys take off overseas...

and Nonu at 12? he has been terrible all season