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Argentina v Australia II @ 5.10am 14/08

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Rugby Head

Watty Friend (18)
I don't get the Backs on the bench there. Are one of the centres carrying a niggle into this match?
I think Simone is a safety blanket for Foketi. He is a bit of an unknown quantity so need the coverage on the bench. Disappointed to see Leota gone, he bends the line pretty much every time he carries. But to be fair, I think we need to see Holloway given another start to see if he's up for it.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
If the game is close I’d take Gordon.

He has scored more tries than Tate has for the last few years, including some momentum changing intercept tries to carry the tahs through.

But the most important question, who can play the style Rennie wants if Nic white is injured in the first minute? That’s probably why Gordon gets picked.
Depends what you want and although I don't have an issue with Gordon being in the squad, I think he is more of a starter than a finisher. I suspect that is why Tate is on the bench for this game.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Can I ask why then Tate is not on the bench? Maybe he’s benching this week.

Personally, i would have Tate there every day of the week. Based on some of Rennie's interviews I recall he stated he preferred Gordon as he was more of a game manager similar to White. He prefers this for certain opposition as opposed to a running threat.
 

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
Another Vunivalu omission blows my mind.

Not that I disagree with the players who have been selected - but why bother re-signing the bloke with an eye on the RWC if he's not going to get any minutes to prove anything?

Considering he's also the behind the likes of injured players Kellaway and Perese for a wing/bench spot - I'm not really sure when Vunivalu gets his chance. I know he isn't being paid the $800k a year people first thought, but geez I'd love for him to actually play.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
The backline combo lacks any game-time together, I sense a bit or rusk this game. JOC (James O'Connor) and Foketi not sure how they will combine.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
Another Vunivalu omission blows my mind.

Not that I disagree with the players who have been selected - but why bother re-signing the bloke with an eye on the RWC if he's not going to get any minutes to prove anything?

Considering he's also the behind the likes of injured players Kellaway and Perese for a wing/bench spot - I'm not really sure when Vunivalu gets his chance. I know he isn't being paid the $800k a year people first thought, but geez I'd love for him to actually play.
He has to earn his spot like everyone else, doesn’t he? Does not matter how much he has been paid. He must demand selection through his performances and training.
FWIW I’d love to see more of him too but only when he warrants a spot.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Another Vunivalu omission blows my mind.

Not that I disagree with the players who have been selected - but why bother re-signing the bloke with an eye on the RWC if he's not going to get any minutes to prove anything?

Considering he's also the behind the likes of injured players Kellaway and Perese for a wing/bench spot - I'm not really sure when Vunivalu gets his chance. I know he isn't being paid the $800k a year people first thought, but geez I'd love for him to actually play.

Maybe it's as simple as he is not performing well enough in training.
 

Members Section

John Thornett (49)
The backline combo lacks any game-time together, I sense a bit or rusk this game. JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) and Foketi not sure how they will combine.

we could have almost gone a brumbies 9/10 12/13 this week just because they have all played together, not ideal but this combo doesn't fill me with any more confidence than an all brums one
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
we could have almost gone a brumbies 9/10 12/13 this week just because they have all played together, not ideal but this combo doesn't fill me with any more confidence than an all brums one

I wasn't criticizing I was just managing expectations. I think the squad is the right call given the injures and current players available.

I'm excited about Foketi and I think he has loads of potential. JOC (James O'Connor) I'm more nervous about but it was flip of a coin between JOC (James O'Connor) and Lolesio and I think an in-form JOC (James O'Connor) is better then an in-form Lolesio. Although, ironically I think Lolesio is more in form then JOC (James O'Connor), but then again you don't get into form unless you start playing.
 

Purce

Jim Clark (26)
we could have almost gone a brumbies 9/10 12/13 this week just because they have all played together, not ideal but this combo doesn't fill me with any more confidence than an all brums one
I think that's a fair comment when you consider:
9. Brumbs
10. Reds
12. Tahs
13. Brumbs

Fair bit of disconnect there.
 

Purce

Jim Clark (26)
Certainly seems like Hodge will be on the bench and JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) will be starting.

For reference though, we scored 24-7 after Hodge came onto the field (not including the try McReight scored while Cooper was down injured that Hodge then converted).

What is required from an international 10? Based on the teams that are currently most successful it would seem to be to kick your points and try and have your team play as much of the game inside the opposition half as possible.

As you said I believe it certainly relates to how the team plays and the other players in the team (what are the strengths) .

At a starting point you would want a consistent passer who reads the game well, is a strong communicator and kicks accurately in general play. As a base level. On top of that I'd want a strong defender, agility and acceleration, a long pass, a long boot and consistency across all aspects of their game. The kind of player you see make a mistake and cannot remember the last time they did it.

For mine, Hodge doesn't tick a lot of those boxes.

I will say that Hodge would suit a 10 man rugby style very well. As I said in a previous post that if he just sits in the pocket and kicks to corners, carries strongly and tackles well he would fit that mould of 10. Particularly with a playmaker 9. However this is not the style of rugby I want to see the Wallabies play. There is a time and a place for it and our game plan should have balance however I don't think we could get that balance right with Hodge at 10.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Some concerns with another brand new centre combination, less so in attack, more about know where each other are in defence

JOC (James O'Connor) is a concern, he hasn't been great this year - he just looks slow, but his experience does allow for some smart decisions

Forwards are fine, we seem to be blessed with a good lump of interchangeable forwards of essentially the same level - no "goats" but all right
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Some concerns with another brand new centre combination, less so in attack, more about know where each other are in defence

JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) is a concern, he hasn't been great this year - he just looks slow, but his experience does allow for some smart decisions

Forwards are fine, we seem to be blessed with a good lump of interchangeable forwards of essentially the same level - no "goats" but all right

To be fair, in that previous shocker JOC (James O'Connor) had, the one thing he did look good at was his footwork and running game (surprisingly). So I remain hopeful.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Another Vunivalu omission blows my mind.

Not that I disagree with the players who have been selected - but why bother re-signing the bloke with an eye on the RWC if he's not going to get any minutes to prove anything?

Considering he's also the behind the likes of injured players Kellaway and Perese for a wing/bench spot - I'm not really sure when Vunivalu gets his chance. I know he isn't being paid the $800k a year people first thought, but geez I'd love for him to actually play.

I too want to see Vunuvalu with time on the field. But I don't find this strange at all. It may well have happened if we had been closer to full strength. But look at that back row bench and pick one to be removed for Vunivalu, and consider whether the backline support remains. Vunivalu isn't going into 9 or the centres if there is an injury. And he doesn't offer anything like the flexibility that Hodge does to support the starters. JOC (James O'Connor) is just back and we definitely need someone capable of stepping in at 10. That obviously isn't Vunivalu.

If the 8 are back for SA, maybe a chance is brewing back in the Australia tests.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
As you said I believe it certainly relates to how the team plays and the other players in the team (what are the strengths) .

At a starting point you would want a consistent passer who reads the game well, is a strong communicator and kicks accurately in general play. As a base level. On top of that I'd want a strong defender, agility and acceleration, a long pass, a long boot and consistency across all aspects of their game. The kind of player you see make a mistake and cannot remember the last time they did it.

For mine, Hodge doesn't tick a lot of those boxes.

I will say that Hodge would suit a 10 man rugby style very well. As I said in a previous post that if he just sits in the pocket and kicks to corners, carries strongly and tackles well he would fit that mould of 10. Particularly with a playmaker 9. However this is not the style of rugby I want to see the Wallabies play. There is a time and a place for it and our game plan should have balance however I don't think we could get that balance right with Hodge at 10.

I'm definitely playing devil's advocate here.

The player we all think is our first choice 10 tried to offload just outside our try line in the opening minutes of the game. His highlights were holding up a pass nicely to put Petaia in for our first try but realistically this wasn't anything amazing. We had front foot ball metres out from the try line.

The other good play was the big break he made down field. We didn't look great in that first half.

In terms of the style we play, does being slightly less aggressive in our own half and playing field position more give us a better chance of scoring more tries and playing more attacking rugby?

We threw the ball around a lot against England and scored 3 tries, 2 tries and 2 tries across the 3 tests. Our attack wasn't sparkling in any way (aside from probably the Tom Wright try in the third test).

I think all our 10s should be playing a similar game and it should be closer to how we played with Hodge at 10 against the Pumas than Lolesio against England. We'll score more tries and be happier with our attack if we do that because we'll put ourselves in a better position to use it.

Forward runners in the middle of the field were largely absent against England. We need more of that.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
I'm just gunna say it: I don't know why we are selecting JOC (James O'Connor) and I think we will regret it.
 
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