Delphy
Ward Prentice (10)
Got that from the Rebels Twitter account and took it on face value. Anyone know the final U17 SNH V SW score?
ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships
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vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
Nothing more official than the Melbourne Rebels twitter page! Fingers crossed its all confirmed...
hawktrain
Ted Thorn (20)
On the refereeing, young referees have to gain experience at a high level at some point, and this is a perfect opportunity for them to do so. If we rely on the best senior referees to do these games, there's less development of younger refs and the next generation of top senior referees might not come through. Just as the comp develops the next generation of players (and in some cases coaching staff too), it also needs to develop the next generation of referees.
The coaching will determine how the players in the programme develop not the referees in the games provided those in the programme diligently apply themselves to the programme. Referees in games may determine whether a kid (or parent) wins a prize, but they do not determine whether the kid has been developed.
If Parents want trinkets to feel good about their $660 investment, then I would suggest that is a lot more cost effective just to go to the nearest trophy shop in your local suburban shopping centre and order whatever grand trophy you want to display in the "Pool Room". The trinket will be engraved with precisely what you want, and be exactly the size that you pay for, and it will cost less than $660, with no travel, or waiting around or investment of any real time or effort on anyones behalf, and it can not be taken way from you by some insult of a referee.
Winning isn't everything. The "Best team" often doesn't win. The "Best Players" are often not in the winning team. It isn't always the referees fault. How many more cliches (and truisms) do we need?
/Rant over.
Chris Green
Frank Nicholson (4)
As Hugh says above, feel free to put your hand up
I think you have missed the point completely. This is year #2 of the programme and best the best possible referee's should have been appointed to these games when ever possible. I am not a referee so no point putting my hand up as that does not change the situation, however if I was a referee or official in control of referees I would want to support and develop my people as well. As a rugby supporter I am fully aware of the complex nature of our game but even simple blunders which were 101 of out the referees handbook have been occurring. Not sure how many games you may have been to or watched but some of these referees are clearly outside of their ability to control these games .
Lets all hope that planning can be put in this year during the current season to develop an elite core of junior referees who will be better skilled and better prepared to control these games in 2016. If not I am sure you will be offering the same old excuses next year.
I think you have missed the point completely. This is year #2 of the programme and best the best possible referee's should have been appointed to these games when ever possible. I am not a referee so no point putting my hand up as that does not change the situation, however if I was a referee or official in control of referees I would want to support and develop my people as well. As a rugby supporter I am fully aware of the complex nature of our game but even simple blunders which were 101 of out the referees handbook have been occurring. Not sure how many games you may have been to or watched but some of these referees are clearly outside of their ability to control these games .
Lets all hope that planning can be put in this year during the current season to develop an elite core of junior referees who will be better skilled and better prepared to control these games in 2016. If not I am sure you will be offering the same old excuses next year.
Hilltop View
Peter Burge (5)
With the comp over for some teams now, does anyone know when the QLD and NSW teams are named?
RedBlue
Stan Wickham (3)
I do agree with both parties on the debate about the young refs and to be honest the games that I have watched they have been at the same level at any other ref at state champs or school rugby. Although in the North Harbour vs Victoria game the ref forgot about the advantage and cost the NH 15's the game. I do think that they should have touch judges with a bit more experience who could talk to the young ref through these microphones that I have been seeing them wear. I think that this would benefit the new refs and the players.
Chris McCracken
Jim Clark (26)
I don't think I missed the point at all. What I know is that I frequently disagree with a ref's call. However, I never criticise them for it. And I appreciate the fact that they are out there giving their time and I am sat on the sideline coaching or watching. Without those refs, the boys don't get a game.
There is a place for complaints about referees and it's not here, as far as I can tell.
Aside from that, if I'm watching Super Rugby referees balls up calls, I'm not going to place a higher standard on people reffing under 17s - especially if I'm not prepared to do it myself.
EDIT: In our case, there are some excellent quality referees on the field playing the game, as well. They don't argue or complain either. They know how hard the job is.
Referees are a limited resource. They do not grow on trees and you can't drop into Bunnings or any other retailer to get a couple of them "off the shelf".
As in any population "good referees" are a sub-set of the total referee population.
The more referees we have, the more "good referees" we will have.
If everyone simply sits back and just whinges about the poor quality of referees and how these "insults" of referees are costing their kids a chance of winning a game and therefore a shiny trinket or bragging right, within in a development programme environment, then even less potentially "good referees" will be attracted into the referee population.
Instead of sounding off about the insulting standard of referees on a largely anonymous internet forum, pick up the phone and talk to the local rugby referee association. Be constructive, objective and positive or the end result will simply be one less referee available to officiate in our game.
Without referees, there is no game.
As in any population "good referees" are a sub-set of the total referee population.
The more referees we have, the more "good referees" we will have.
If everyone simply sits back and just whinges about the poor quality of referees and how these "insults" of referees are costing their kids a chance of winning a game and therefore a shiny trinket or bragging right, within in a development programme environment, then even less potentially "good referees" will be attracted into the referee population.
Instead of sounding off about the insulting standard of referees on a largely anonymous internet forum, pick up the phone and talk to the local rugby referee association. Be constructive, objective and positive or the end result will simply be one less referee available to officiate in our game.
Without referees, there is no game.
vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
This looks like today's U17 Sydney North Harbour v Sydney West game. Looks like the West played extremely well to get the win 42-7 putting them equal on points with Victoria at 20pts. Victoria go through to the Southern Conference Final as they beat Sydney West for the tiebreaker.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
That was probably SW best game. NS simply weren't allowed to really play in the 2nd half. SW controlled the game with really good structured play combined with a well organised defence. Add their obvious power game and it was always going to be hard for NS. The first half of the first half was NS but from there on the tide began to turn and the momentum just built to a near runaway proportions.
With I assume both the Vic and ACT making up both grades of the Southern conference will this be the last footage we'll likely see? If so that a bloody shame. I've really enjoyed watching these young men give their all in a really good competition. Well done NSW for organising Bar TV who did a great job with their brand of enthusiasm. Hopefully they'll be back next season and hopefully the ACT and a Vics can get on board as well.
Oldschool
Jim Clark (26)
Well done to the teams that made the finals. It was great to see so many kids running around during the cricket season
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WA's hanging around in Brisbane for the northern conference final, which they must be raging favourites to take out. Might be one or two rugby scholarships for a couple of these boys......
Single state teams have taken out pools A, B and D. With pool C the only one which didn't have this occurrence as there was none. So in version 3 next year is it 2 teams for these states or is it the reduction of the Sydney/ Brisbane teams?.
.WA's hanging around in Brisbane for the northern conference final, which they must be raging favourites to take out. Might be one or two rugby scholarships for a couple of these boys......
Single state teams have taken out pools A, B and D. With pool C the only one which didn't have this occurrence as there was none. So in version 3 next year is it 2 teams for these states or is it the reduction of the Sydney/ Brisbane teams?.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The depends on the purpose for which the Sydney and Brisbane teams are said to exist: development or elite.
There has only been one, to my knowledge, direct comparison between the JGC teams from single team states and Schools teams and that occurred about a year ago when WA U17 played a Sydney school of no great rugby repute and somewhat depleted and were down 14-0 at half time but went on to win 16-14.
I suggest that this supports the view its a development comp. In which case there should me no reduction inf the numbers of teams in QLD and NSW.
However, selection needs to take place early enough to get league players interested and involved before they get offered their respective junior league rep pathways.
Having selection trial weeks after season's end when a lot of U17s will have played 40 or 50 games is unnecessary.
At the start of the 'comp' I shared Oldschool's opinion that there were too many Sydney teams to be competitive and that the talent was spread a little thin (especially when you factor in the impact that Harold Matts has on the composition of the teams). After seeing the development of the kids, especially the ones that would most likely have missed out if there were one fewer teams, I've completely changed my view - there are an extra bunch of kids that have become fitter, more skilled and who have had the opportunity to tour with their mates and that has to be a good thing for rugby.
Having said that, I think it's difficult to not end up with people getting competitive when you are running a competition, issuing bonus points and running finals. It's also must be tougher for some of the teams when they aren't associated with any club structure and, therefore, have no home ground, no fixed infrastructure, and limited identity. I'm hoping that in 5 years time when my youngest is eligible these teething problems have been ironed out and each of the teams has a relatively even playing field in terms of well-developed programs, all the gear they need to train well without adding stress to the coaching staff and some form of belonging to a part of a bigger whole. I'm sure it helps with recruitment and retention in Melbourne, the ACT and WA that each of these teams has a direct link with a Super Rugby franchise - that is made more difficult in NSW and QLD due to the number of teams and perhaps a clear association with an NRC team is a smarter bet in that space.
I take my hat off to the coaches throughout the program. Watched some great rugby and, given the program still being in its infancy think they've done a stellar job. I hope next year they get some better resourcing, that the back-office planning of the program is improved so that they aren't waiting until mid-program for bits of kit they need or to find out details of travel plans etc.
I really hope that the program continues as I think it provides a great platform for kids outside the school rugby programs to shine - particularly important in an age where sporting scholarships that may have previously been available are such a hotbed of debate.
vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
I think this competition is great for developing Australian Rugby. It should start paying off in about 5 to 10 years time when these talented kids start to flow through to the NRC and on to Super Rugby teams creating more depth for the Wallabies to select from.
Now, if we can only get alignment and a possible integrated competition for the schools and club rugby?
Now, if we can only get alignment and a possible integrated competition for the schools and club rugby?
Just coming back to the referee topic.
Last year in QLD high level referees(some Premier refs) were involved in the un 17's pools, and in the 15's were high level junior refs.
That achieved very little in development of refs as the quality of rugby was well below the normal level of each set of refs.
This year they have gone for a much more development orientated view, where some young refs have been given the opportunity in the 15's. There have been some mistakes, but this is the best format to blood refs into the representative scene.
I have seen some coaches and parents out there that act like rabid dogs on the sideline, which can only negatively impact young refs and players. Pull your head in and let the boys play, if a ref has a shocker chances are he knows it and won't be reffing at that level next week, he doesn't need some one eyed hick telling him he is worse then hitler.
Last year in QLD high level referees(some Premier refs) were involved in the un 17's pools, and in the 15's were high level junior refs.
That achieved very little in development of refs as the quality of rugby was well below the normal level of each set of refs.
This year they have gone for a much more development orientated view, where some young refs have been given the opportunity in the 15's. There have been some mistakes, but this is the best format to blood refs into the representative scene.
I have seen some coaches and parents out there that act like rabid dogs on the sideline, which can only negatively impact young refs and players. Pull your head in and let the boys play, if a ref has a shocker chances are he knows it and won't be reffing at that level next week, he doesn't need some one eyed hick telling him he is worse then hitler.
The ref doesn't go mid game and abuse someone on the sideline. I have no problems people saying if a ref has a poor game on places like this cause its moderated and its all about feedback. Thus the feedback i was giving on some people out there.
Animal
Allen Oxlade (6)
Do the Sydney and Brisbane teams exclude all players from GPS schools and other rugby playing schools? If yes then you have a perfectly valid point.
If they are included and your point of argument is purely that the U17 JGC single state teams are only as good as a "depleted Sydney School of no great rugby repute" then it is flawed by design.
The 2014 JGC winners beat the conference winners that beat Sydney based representative teams. So your argument is basically that a “depleted Sydney School of no great rugby repute" would have done just as good if not better job than the selected Sydney representative teams - find that one difficult to believe.
Surely the Sydney and Brisbane representative rugby teams should surely be better than a "depleted Sydney School of no great rugby repute" ?
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