Aussie Player Exodus

[upthereds#!]

Kepu, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horwill and PAO... any other "concrete" rumors as to who else is on the cash express out of here?..

Was thinking alot of the older guys but surely we can't afford to let EVERYONE around the age of 30 to leave in addition to the stars like genia quade folau etc that have been thrown around....

scary what 2016 may look like

 

[Braveheart81]

I think you're spot on. The ARU don't give the big top-ups to tight 5 players, they give them to the players who are in demand elsewhere.

And because the ARU are doing such a good job, we're supposed to trust them to do a better job that the super franchises? They're flat out picking tomorrow's winners let alone two years into the future.

Is there any evidence to suggest that tight five players on top up contracts aren't paid well?

The only ones that have gone overseas were players outside of the top up system. After the RWC we will lose players mostly considering themselves in the twilight of their career and hence likely to drop off the ARU top up system from 2016 or soon afterwards.

The guaranteed top up contracts are pretty much designed to reward the players who have played for the Wallabies. Part of that is dictated by the fact that you need to have played for two seasons in most cases to get one.

I don't get how there can be an expectation that players who have never played a test but could be an important Wallaby in a couple of years time can be paid a lot more to keep them here.

 

[Omar Comin']

I don't get how there can be an expectation that players who have never played a test but could be an important Wallaby in a couple of years time can be paid a lot more to keep them here.

Seems like this is starting to happen in Wales. The WRU have now signed 6 players to their new dual contracts (60% covered by the WRU, 40% by their region). 1 of those guys is uncapped, another has just 1. The contracts will allow the WRU to manage the work load of players at Pro 12 and European Cup level - I think it's something like a maximum of 16 games for their region per season.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Is there any evidence to suggest that tight five players on top up contracts aren't paid well?

The only ones that have gone overseas were players outside of the top up system. After the RWC we will lose players mostly considering themselves in the twilight of their career and hence likely to drop off the ARU top up system from 2016 or soon afterwards.

The guaranteed top up contracts are pretty much designed to reward the players who have played for the Wallabies. Part of that is dictated by the fact that you need to have played for two seasons in most cases to get one.

I don't get how there can be an expectation that players who have never played a test but could be an important Wallaby in a couple of years time can be paid a lot more to keep them here.

Without knowing who is currently on top up money and for how long, I would rather see this extra incentive post 2015 go to younger players whether they've played Wallabies or not, than to the likes of Robinson, TPN, Alexander, Palu, Genia, Horne et al, assuming any of these would then be on an ARU contract. IMO none of these older, established players should be offered more than a one year contract at most if their form continues to warrant that. Otherwise, it will be money down the drain that could have been used to keep players like Douglas, Pyle, Longbottom and Alo-Emile, and perhaps a few others (notably Kepu) at the end of the RWC in this country.

 

[TOCC]

But what's your definition of young?
Is the purpose of the Wallabies only to perform well every 4 years or should they be performing every year.?
Wallabies consistently have one of the youngest squads at the RWC, even on the current squad it will be younger then the average age of previous RWC winning squads..

My issue is that senior players in their late 20's and early 30's shouldn't be discounted just because of their age, players should be offered contracts on their form as well as their potential. Age is a consideration, but there has been plenty of international players perform at the highest level well into their early 30's.


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[Braveheart81]

I reckon you'd end up paying top up contract money to far more players who never do anything for the Wallabies if you work on providing big contracts to younger players who you predict will be important in a couple of years time.

Predicting how much players will improve is far more difficult than choosing the players who are important to you right now and ensuring they are well remunerated.

If we went back two years, everyone was expecting people like Ben Tapuai to be one of the next big things in Australian Rugby and it hasn't happened and isn't really foreseeable now given how much strength we have at 12.

I don't think any system is perfect but if we're looking at around 25 top up contracts, it's hard to go past a system that aims to cover our best matchday team. That will always include a range of younger and older players because that is naturally a spread of the best talent over a range of years.

 

[Quick Hands]

Is there any evidence to suggest that tight five players on top up contracts aren't paid well?

The only ones that have gone overseas were players outside of the top up system. After the RWC we will lose players mostly considering themselves in the twilight of their career and hence likely to drop off the ARU top up system from 2016 or soon afterwards.

The guaranteed top up contracts are pretty much designed to reward the players who have played for the Wallabies. Part of that is dictated by the fact that you need to have played for two seasons in most cases to get one.

I don't get how there can be an expectation that players who have never played a test but could be an important Wallaby in a couple of years time can be paid a lot more to keep them here.

Neither do I, and I've never said they should.

 

[TOCC]

Neither do I, and I've never said they should.

BH never said that comment came from you, It was in reply to BrumbyRunners comments.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

In the end I think it is an individual decision whether to stay in Australia or go overseas - the reasons are not clear cut with factors coming into play such as Money , Culture , Wanting to improve their game via offshore experience, Career-Education -Life experience , Partners-Children , Injury limiting rep opportunities , playing style not in sync with incumbent coaching staff , lack of belief in being selected for higher honours or the realisation that their best days have peaked (and Money , again) . I think what Cheika has said on the subject is about as good as it can get ie. To make it an irresistible proposition to be a part of the Wallabies . A top up scenario is not perfect but it looks like it will have to do , I don't necessarily agree with the line of the investment the ARU makes in a player .... I've known a few and the parents/families seem to do plenty of hard yards both financially and holistically for the cause .... remember plenty of dreams are shattered if you look into the stands at Super 15 players left on the shelf in their suits on game days , then quietly told their services are no longer required after a couple of seasons .... Its a 2 way street and so it should be . SO WHAT DO YOU WANNA BE ? A Wallaby or a World Traveller ? A: A World Traveller (I Peaked around 30 years ago ) or maybe just flat lining all this time !

 

[Tip]

plenty of dreams are shattered if you look into the stands at Super 15 players left on the shelf in their suits on game days , then quietly told their services are no longer required after a couple of seasons .. Its a 2 way street and so it should be . SO WHAT DO YOU WANNA BE ? A Wallaby or a World Traveller ? A: A World Traveller?

This.

Players like Douglas, Cummins and PAE will come back as better players and people for it.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Add Pyle as well ...

 

[Brumby Runner]

This.

Players like Douglas, Cummins and PAE will come back as better players and people for it.

I hope you're right but what's the evidence for thinking this? Only player in recent times I can readily think of who was a test player before he went overseas and has since returned is Luke Burgess. Now he has trouble starting at the Rebels and certainly atm isn't in the frame for Wallabies' selection.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Cipriani did it in reverse ... and JOC (James O'Connor) is the one to watch for 2015 .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This.

Players like Douglas, Cummins and PAE will come back as better players and people for it.

Why would Douglas come back?

 

[TOCC]

Who knows, his desire to play test rugby might be reignited in a couple of years


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[Brumby Runner]

Cipriani did it in reverse . and JOC (James O'Connor) is the one to watch for 2015 .

Cipriani (and Haskell and maybe even Delve) is an example of a NH player improving after a stint in Super rugby. I'd expect that, but I still can't think of anyone who has improved after their stint in the North.

Ben Alexander came to prominance here after playing a couple of years in England, but he wasn't playing at national level before going over there. So maybe, others in the same boat like Longbottom and PAE will eventually return as representative level players but I'd have to see someone like Ma'afu come back and force his way back into the Wallabies to be convinced that a NH sojourn will mean they come back as better players.

JOC (James O'Connor) of course was a Wallaby representative before he went o/s but I sincerely hope he does return as a better person.

 

[Quick Hands]

I suspect that the only ones who will come back are the young, single ones with a buring desire to play for the Wallabies (e.g JOC (James O'Connor))and older ones coming back for family reasons after playing careers are finished(i.e. kids about to start school). Compared to the lifestyle of a super rugby player and fringe Wallaby, the lifestyle in France is just miles ahead and the pay is likely to be better too.

It's like career choices that we all face. I know plenty of people who've been offered higher paying jobs, but have stayed where they are because of family or lifestyle choices, and I know plenty who have taken the better money and been in a position to move their family overseas with them. With 90% of us, or more, it's the family and lifestyle choice that are first and foremost in our thoughts. Why should rugby players be any different?

 

[Strewthcobber]

I suspect that the only ones who will come back are the young, single ones with a buring desire to play for the Wallabies (e.g JOC (James O'Connor))and older ones coming back for family reasons after playing careers are finished(i.e. kids about to start school).

I suspect it will only happen around world cup years as well

 

[swingpass]

when i started the thread i had envisaged many more fringe wallabies and super "never to be" wallabies going to Europe and Japan before the post RWC exodus of older more experienced internationals (from all countries not just Australia). i expected AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horwill, Genia, Palu, Kepu to go and possibly Folau,QC (Quade Cooper), TPN as well. it was the next tier, where those players replacements were to come from, that i thought could be devastated

i am pleasantly surprised that many more haven't gone. in reality only Douglas, Pyle, Longbottom from the fringe group. Cummins went and is coming back. a few younger ones have left (before even being S15 starters) and then PAE is going after 2015. not the wholesale slaughter i thought might have happened.

as said above, there are very many reasons for going and probably just as many for staying. i don't begrudge any of them for playing OS. whether or not they come back, improved or otherwise, time will tell. in the longterm i don't think Australian rugby will be able to ignore its "off shore" playing brigade and will have to select the Wallabies from whoever is available and fit. it may well kill the S18/NRC competition but i strongly doubt it.

 

[formerflanker]

I wonder if any of the departing players were looking at going to Le Boulou or Salanque Cote Radieuse?
http://www.theroar.tv/red-cards-galore-in-french-rugby-match-after-all-in-brawl/