Australia v Argentina - 21 November, Newcastle

[barbarian]

Are we expecting too much of this team, and some of its players?

By my count we're missing six starters (Slips, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Swinton, JOC (James O'Connor), MT, DHP), and that's before you factor in overseas guys.

We're also fielding a very green backline, and the spine of our pack is also very green. On paper it's one of the weakest Wallaby teams we've seen in a long time.

I'm not devastated about that game, though I'm not happy either. It's far from a disaster. We played really well for 60 minutes, fell apart for 10 minutes then held on in the end for a draw.

Once again it seems there's a lot of focus on the backs, but I thought our issues in the last 20 stemmed from our lack of momentum from the pack. Philip was the lone standout in attack, we needed more from guys like FF (Folau Fainga'a), AAA, Hooper, Wilson in the late stages.

Argentina defended well, the game came down to a few moments we just didn't grasp. But I've seen far, far worse Wallaby performances in our time and I'm really looking forward to our last game because I still think there's plenty to play for.
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[Joe Blow]

And yet Rennie complaint was they didn’t kick enough.

I don’t think he as referring to that sort of kick

 

[barbarian]

The kick wasn't great, but if if was executed better it could have been good. Pinned the Argies in the corner, force them to kick to touch and we've got a lineout in their 22. So that's why it was annoying, because the idea was questionable but then he couldn't get the execution right.

I'm not as down on JP as some others. If that's the worst game he's played then he's doing pretty well. I'd like to see him set up his outside men a bit better but then again taking the ball up with a strong carry is also better than trying to throw a miracle offload or shovelling pressure sideways.

 

[Joe Blow]

We need a legitimate 10. Don’t get me wrong, Hodge has done an incredible job in the last two games. However, he is limited as a 10 and hence our attack is a little toothless and easy to contain.
If JOC (James O'Connor) is not fit then Lolesio should get a start in Sydney, with Hodge close by if needed. If we are still in the running for the title we are most likely going to need to score a lot of points.

 

[Braveheart81]

The kick wasn't great, but if if was executed better it could have been good. Pinned the Argies in the corner, force them to kick to touch and we've got a lineout in their 22. So that's why it was annoying, because the idea was questionable but then he couldn't get the execution right.

This is very generous.

It was a really low percentage play when every other option available to him was better.

It was par for the course for us in the last 20 minutes where we kept making average decisions.

 

[Pfitzy]

Are we expecting too much of this team, and some of its players?
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No.

 

[A mutterer]

Are we expecting too much of this team, and some of its players?

By my count we're missing six starters (Slips, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Swinton, JOC (James O'Connor), MT, DHP), and that's before you factor in overseas guys.

We're also fielding a very green backline, and the spine of our pack is also very green. On paper it's one of the weakest Wallaby teams we've seen in a long time.

I'm not devastated about that game, though I'm not happy either. It's far from a disaster. We played really well for 60 minutes, fell apart for 10 minutes then held on in the end for a draw.

Once again it seems there's a lot of focus on the backs, but I thought our issues in the last 20 stemmed from our lack of momentum from the pack. Philip was the lone standout in attack, we needed more from guys like FF (Folau Fainga'a), AAA, Hooper, Wilson in the late stages.

Argentina defended well, the game came down to a few moments we just didn't grasp. But I've seen far, far worse Wallaby performances in our time and I'm really looking forward to our last game because I still think there's plenty to play for.
.

probably, and riding high on the emotion of beating the AB's put us in a usual optimism/pessimism cycle? i enjoyed large parts of the game and there's definitely stuff we did well but lots more to improve on.

I still think apart from the greenness, we're missing way too many tackles. This creates more pressure for the flankers and 8, and hoops seemed to be doing a fair bit of cover (?), and the rest of the defensive line to scramble. Perhaps our fitness not being there was evident in some of the poor decision making?

 

[Derpus]

Once again it seems there's a lot of focus on the backs, but I thought our issues in the last 20 stemmed from our lack of momentum from the pack. Philip was the lone standout in attack, we needed more from guys like FF (Folau Fainga'a), AAA, Hooper, Wilson in the late stages.

Wilson got yanked and i thought that his substitution (along with Wright and Tupou) had a fair bit to do with us falling apart.

Agree generally, though that its a very green backline. Most of our issues revolve around decision making rather than ability which hopefully improves with maturity.

The real issue is losing these players once they hit maturity (E.g. losing Arnold, Latu, etc as soon as they peak).

 

[formerflanker]

We played really well for 60 minutes, fell apart for 10 minutes then held on in the end for a draw.
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Against one of the best teams in the world who just beat the All Blacks.

 

[barbarian]

Against one of the best teams in the world who just beat the All Blacks.

Maybe not quite that good, but they are clearly a vastly superior Argentina side than what we've seen in the past few seasons.

 

[Tomikin]

Do you think the other 9s reputation may have been enhanced by playing behind the ponies dominant pack possibly more than Powells?

Or that playing behind the other packs under continual pressure provides them a deeper understanding of the reality of being the Wobs 9?

Well he was selected in front of White for the final with the same pack, but yes it can mask it, I would say the Red's had a pack just as good as the Brumbies, so who knows. I feel that Gordan hadn't really proven in his game time to be any better. I would select Tate.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

And even with the Pumas cover defence likely to cover this overlap by the time it gets to the 22, at least you could have some draw n pass, Valenti cutting inside to set up in front of the sticks for a droppie or penalty chance.

At least straighten up, try to commit a defender or two (draw and pass), and give your outside backs a red-hot go.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Dave, I've posted earlier, but it's worth repeating I think. The change in structure and failure to perform in the last 20 coincides with Tom Wright being replaced. With both Koroibete and Daugunu on the ground, Hodge then had to play the second fullback role, which Wright had handled so well in his time on the ground. I think Rennie has made a number of howlers in selections and tactics over this RC, but I'm hopeful he will recognise the mistakes and do the right thing in future. First and foremost, he must not have both Koroibete and Daugunu on the ground at the same time. It affects the defensive game plan as well as having two players who are more inclined to have brain fades when playing than to do good.

I see your point, but I don't think our defensive game was particularly weak - then again it wasn't tested as the only times they really got their hands on the pill was from rubbish tactical kicking.

 

[Tahtrajic]

The big turning point for me was the penalty from Daugunu's kick return. We did very well out of playing in their half. He should have put it in the air.

I remember at the time thinking he was very near the tackle but not part of the tackle.

I’ve seen Sam Cain do exactly what Hoops did multiple times and not get pinged. Oh well sometimes you get away with it sometimes not.

 

[Derpus]

I’ve seen Sam Cain do exactly what Hoops did multiple times and not get pinged. Oh well sometimes you get away with it sometimes not.

I wonder if Sam Cane spends the 50 minutes prior to pulling a swifty having a huge whinge.

 

[Brumby Runner]

correlation versus causation..

plenty of substitutions and variables occur in the last which change the structure and performance of a team. I find it hard to believe the substitution of a winger has a bigger impact on the structure of the team then the halves or forwards.

Did you not notice that Tom Wright played the second fullback role, but after he was replaced that role fell to Hodge. It quite dramatically affected the structure of the halves, and hence the whole backline.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Posted by Brumby Jack on twitter, this was the killer.

View attachment 11935

With Daugunu and Valetini outside him, Koroibete looming on his inside shoulder, lots of space and backpedalling defenders, Petaia kicks to no one.

From that starting point, I'm surprised Jake Gordon didn't get to the ball before the touch in goal.

 

[Braveheart81]

From that starting point, I'm surprised Jake Gordon didn't get to the ball before the touch in goal.

I don't know what happened after that but I assume he let the onside players run past him before he kept moving.

Obviously none of our players got to the ball before it was fielded in the in goal by a Pumas player.

 

[KOB1987]

From that starting point, I'm surprised Jake Gordon didn't get to the ball before the touch in goal.

He would have had to wait for Petaia to level up with him and then go from a standing start.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Sorry KOB and BH but there isn't a sarcasm/irony button available. Maybe I should have ended with.