Australia v Italy, Suncorp Stadium, 24th June 2017 @ 3:00pm

[Braveheart81]

Genia kicks, and will continue to kick because Australia lack kicking options elsewhere in the backline, its that simple.

Surely he kicks because one of the jobs of the halfback is to be able to kick.

Every international halfback kicks regardless of the number of kicking options they have in the backline.

The box kick has its place and should be a safe clearance option with forwards there to give you some shielding and/or for contestable kicks because the advantage of kicking from the base is that the chasers are more further down the field already compared to chasing a kick from a ball that is passed back.

The charge down try when Genia attempted the clearing kick was presumably called by him. It wasn't like there wasn't another option or two set up to kick (Hunt and/or DHP).

His box kicking certainly needs a lot of work put into it. It seems like he's not kicking the ball from behind his body enough which is making it easy to charge down.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Surely he kicks because one of the jobs of the halfback is to be able to kick.

Every international halfback kicks regardless of the number of kicking options they have in the backline.

The box kick has its place and should be a safe clearance option with forwards there to give you some shielding and/or for contestable kicks because the advantage of kicking from the base is that the chasers are more further down the field already compared to chasing a kick from a ball that is passed back.

The charge down try when Genia attempted the clearing kick was presumably called by him. It wasn't like there wasn't another option or two set up to kick (Hunt and/or DHP).

His box kicking certainly needs a lot of work put into it. It seems like he's not kicking the ball from behind his body enough which is making it easy to charge down.

Only seen the charge down live but my impression is that he actually moved sideways and possibly a bit backwards before he kicked - at least in my minds eye he was some distance from the scrum when he kicked it.
All these movements take time.

 

[Braveheart81]

Only seen the charge down live but my impression is that he actually moved sideways and possibly a bit backwards before he kicked - at least in my minds eye he was some distance from the scrum when he kicked it.
All these movements take time.

He dropped back from the scrum and had Higgers clear it to him from the back of the scrum for the kick.

I don't know whether he went too early which telegraphed what was about to happen to Russell.

Considering he should have been 5m behind the back of the Scotland scrum until the scrum ended, it's a little hard to work out how Genia got charged down unless he was just insanely slow.

 

[TOCC]

Definitely no other options with DHP and two ex- afl players in the backline.

Right.. so that makes Folau and Hunt good kickers does it?
I guess that's why they are no longer in the AFL..

DHP is the only one in the backline besides Foley with a decent kicking game, and I'm going to take a stab and say he was 30m away on the opposite wing.

 

[TOCC]

Surely he kicks because one of the jobs of the halfback is to be able to kick.

Every international halfback kicks regardless of the number of kicking options they have in the backline.

The box kick has its place and should be a safe clearance option with forwards there to give you some shielding and/or for contestable kicks because the advantage of kicking from the base is that the chasers are more further down the field already compared to chasing a kick from a ball that is passed back.

The charge down try when Genia attempted the clearing kick was presumably called by him. It wasn't like there wasn't another option or two set up to kick (Hunt and/or DHP).

His box kicking certainly needs a lot of work put into it. It seems like he's not kicking the ball from behind his body enough which is making it easy to charge down.

Same could be said of a fly-half and fullback.. and when one players skillset lacks in that area you don't persist in getting him attempt it..

Boxkick has its place for sure, when executed well, but you can't tell me that there weren't occasions when a pass back to the 5/8 in the pocket couldn't have achieved the similar or better effects as a box kick.

Having a fullback as a kicking option keeps the defence in two minds, you can still have the 5/8 playing flat ready to take the ball to the line, and you can have the fullback in the pocket ready for a clearing kick.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Folau's kicking is a reason why he needs to be moved to the wing.
As with most of our play, his inability to kick well means that its pretty easy to predict what he's going to do when he gets it at the back.

 

[Braveheart81]

Folau's kicking is a reason why he needs to be moved to the wing.
As with most of our play, his inability to kick well means that its pretty easy to predict what he's going to do when he gets it at the back.

Did that cause us any problems? I thought he was one of our best players.

I reckon DHP is the most likely to lose his spot in the starting XV when Beale returns. He looks down on form, his kicking is only average and he hasn't been good under the high ball.

 

[Slim 293]

I reckon DHP is the most likely to lose his spot in the starting XV when Beale returns. He looks down on form, his kicking is only average and he hasn't been good under the high ball.

Agreed........ he hasn't looked good since coming back from injury.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Did that cause us any problems? I thought he was one of our best players.

I reckon DHP is the most likely to lose his spot in the starting XV when Beale returns. He looks down on form, his kicking is only average and he hasn't been good under the high ball.

I think it makes us entirely predictable in every facet. I can't identify an occasion when his inability to kick could be said to have changed the flow of the game but it just means that sides know they do not have to leave 3 blokes back if its directed at Folau.
I agree about DHP but I think the idea that he loses his spot when Beale comes back is indicative of an issue with our philosophy: where would you pick Beale so as to displace DHP?
If you say wing i give you his performance against Corey Jane at Homebush a few years ago. Jane just walked around him in a humiliating passage of play.
If you say Beale goes in at 12 then I don't see how DHP become the victim unless you intend to play at least one other player out of position.
Its past the time when we should have learnt our lesson about playing backs out of position. Despite the fact that in theory wingers only have to mark other wingers, these days its a bloody tough position in defence, IMO.
13 may be the hardest and so I wonder about Hunt playing there - not sure he's quick enough although he seems pretty cunning in hiding any speed deficiency he may have.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Part of a half's game play is the box kick.

If a half cannot do it to a reasonable level he should be dropped. It's a part of his job, same as passing.

 

[Ignoto]

He looks down on form, his kicking is only average and he hasn't been good under the high ball.

If you move Izzy to wing and shift DHP to 15 you're not really harming yourself when it comes to high balls. If DHP struggles with handling them mid-game, you'd hope the players are smart enough to identify this on the fly and switch positions.

More importantly, I don't think the deciding whether a player can catch a high ball 99% of the time compared to 80% of the time is all that useful when kicking from the back will occur more than catching a high ball.

If KHunt was concussed on the weekend, he won't be playing this Saturday. So it'll be somewhat of a moot point with Hodge coming in to 12.

 

[Scrubber2050]

We should really be towelling up a minnow like Italy by 60-70 points AND keeping them try-less.

Anything less is another fucking failure.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it makes us entirely predictable in every facet. I can't identify an occasion when his inability to kick could be said to have changed the flow of the game but it just means that sides know they do not have to leave 3 blokes back if its directed at Folau.
I agree about DHP but I think the idea that he loses his spot when Beale comes back is indicative of an issue with our philosophy: where would you pick Beale so as to displace DHP?
If you say wing i give you his performance against Corey Jane at Homebush a few years ago. Jane just walked around him in a humiliating passage of play.
If you say Beale goes in at 12 then I don't see how DHP become the victim unless you intend to play at least one other player out of position.
Its past the time when we should have learnt our lesson about playing backs out of position. Despite the fact that in theory wingers only have to mark other wingers, these days its a bloody tough position in defence, IMO.
13 may be the hardest and so I wonder about Hunt playing there - not sure he's quick enough although he seems pretty cunning in hiding any speed deficiency he may have.

Given the current performances I would keep Hunt at 12 because he is playing well, Folau to the wing and Beale to fullback.

I am working on the basis that Beale either plays 12 or 15.

If you move Izzy to wing and shift DHP to 15 you're not really harming yourself when it comes to high balls. If DHP struggles with handling them mid-game, you'd hope the players are smart enough to identify this on the fly and switch positions.

More importantly, I don't think the deciding whether a player can catch a high ball 99% of the time compared to 80% of the time is all that useful when kicking from the back will occur more than catching a high ball.

If KHunt was concussed on the weekend, he won't be playing this Saturday. So it'll be somewhat of a moot point with Hodge coming in to 12.

Wing, fullback and 10 all need to be solid under the high ball because they end up back there to field kicks and will be required to do it from time to time. Players who are struggling with it will be targetted more. It's no surprise that Folau gets less high ball opportunities than he used to because teams know he is very reliable in that role.

DHP's overall form is pretty average right now. I just cited a couple of areas that were noticeable. Moving him to 15 doesn't fix that and I doubt it will happen with Folau playing well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^I don't think Hunt is a long term proposition. He is solid but there's no edge to his game - at the moment solid is good.
Beale at 15 lets me move Folau to the wing so thats a deal.

 

[wamberal]

We should really be towelling up a minnow like Italy by 60-70 points AND keeping them try-less.

Anything less is another fucking failure.

They are a pretty good defensive team at their best. A lot depends on (a) the strength of their touring party and (b) their attitude.

 

[wamberal]

^^I don't think Hunt is a long term proposition. He is solid but there's no edge to his game - at the moment solid is good.
Beale at 15 lets me move Folau to the wing so thats a deal.

Beale will waltz into that shambles of a backline. The only question is: where?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Beale will waltz into that shambles of a backline. The only question is: where?

the capacity to get the answer to that question completely wrong should not be underestimated

 

[Scrubber2050]

Frankly

I reckon KB (Kurtley Beale) would do a better job than our current 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14.

Not only for his playing ability but the cultural values (forget the Di shit and ethnicity). Guys is a terrific contributor to the group as a whole. He is a bloke (whom I am told) that all like being around, as opposed to a couple of nameless others)

 

[Ignoto]

It's no surprise that Folau gets less high ball opportunities than he used to because teams know he is very reliable in that role.

What if they're not kicking it high but kicking deep to us because they know Izzy and Foley can't clear the ball long enough. As a result, they get a net gain in territory!

I just think it goes to show that Australia is not being smart enough and to revert to a Deanism "playing what's in front of us". There's probably less than a handful of high bombs in the game, but there must be 20+ kicks into our 22 that we should be putting back into the oppositions half. If the opposition is doing one more than the other, then switch DHP and Izzy around (if they're kicking high, move Izzy and long, DHP).

 

[Braveheart81]

What if they're not kicking it high but kicking deep to us because they know Izzy and Foley can't clear the ball long enough. As a result, they get a net gain in territory!

This didn't happen though. I thought we won the territory game against Scotland comfortably.