Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

[Train Without a Station]

It goes beyond just the clean steals but once again as I noted, it's hard to quantify. It may be we get such a marginal benefit that it's not even worth considering.

 

[fatprop]

I agree. But Simmons, Carter, and Fardy have stolen maybe 1 in the last couple of weeks. So we're not exactly killing it there to begin with.

Horwill may help in this regard as a starting option.

We haven't looked like disruption is really planned for too often either, why don't we stick our fastest jumper at the front and getting him being a real pest, make them go long and high

 

[Brumby Jack]

Springboks squad for the AUS/NZ tour

Forwards: Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Schalk Brits, Marcell Coetzee, Lodewyk de Jager, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Francois Louw, Victor Matfield, Teboho Mohoje, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Adriaan Strauss, Marcel van der Merwe, Duane Vermeulen.

Backs: Damian de Allende, Jean de Villiers (captain), Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Francois Hougaard, Patrick Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Handré Pollard, Cobus Reinach, Jan Serfontein, Morné Steyn.

 

[Viking]

Springboks squad for the AUS/NZ tour

Forwards: Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Schalk Brits, Marcell Coetzee, Lodewyk de Jager, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Francois Louw, Victor Matfield, Teboho Mohoje, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Adriaan Strauss, Marcel van der Merwe, Duane Vermeulen.

Backs: Damian de Allende, Jean de Villiers (captain), Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Francois Hougaard, Patrick Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Handré Pollard, Cobus Reinach, Jan Serfontein, Morné Steyn.

Looking at that forward pack on paper I got a bad feeling we're going to get bossed at the breakdown and collision area again.

 

[Scrubber2050]

We probably need 100 scrums to tire the big pricks out before breakdowns and collisions

 

[wamberal]

Looking at that forward pack on paper I got a bad feeling we're going to get bossed at the breakdown and collision area again.

Given that the most abrasive and effective Australian-based tight forward (Potgeiter) cannot get into the Saffers squad, I think you are probably on the money there.

 

[Braveheart81]

There's still options to get around, but we might lose some ball. That being said good line outs will often at least take one off each other, but it might be they take 3 off us instead of 1 out of over 10 line outs. Is that acceptable? I don't really know.

The area where having Skelton and Palu hurts us the most though in my view is the defensive line out. They're not quick enough to beat a player in the air after taking off half a second earlier. If I wanted clean ball I'd throw it to the jumper they are marking. The biggest loss becomes difficult to quantify much like the Pocock slowing the ball down in the ruck argument. How much do we gain by putting pressure on their line outs? How much do Simmons, Fardy and Carter achieve that? Was an opposition error due to pressure from them or just an unforced error?

Given we didn't steal a single lineout from the All Blacks on Saturday (although that statistic doesn't consider whether we gave them less than ideal ball on any of them), it doesn't seem like good logic to suggest that changing one lock to an inferior lineout technician must be avoided.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Nah just like Reds vs Bulls ala 2010. Don't give the pricks a line out for a breather and take a quick throw for every one of ours.

 

[A mutterer]

As a recent Perthian, I have to say NIB is fantastic. Sitting in the big stand with the CBD behind is marvelous for rugby, and there's a real family atmosphere.

I didn't realise before today that people in Constantinople could have a lisp.

 

[Brumby Runner]

We will still win line out ball with Skelton in the team. That being said, with Skelton in the team the opposition can therefore more easily mark up on the other 3 options. If one of them is Palu make that the two of them. If I was an international lock, I'd back myself to be able to mark one player, but move and contest if it went to Skelton of Palu due to the fact their slower up and not as strong in the air.

Yeah - with Skelton on whether starting or off the bench, we need at the same time to have one lock, the 6 and the 8 all legitimate jumpers. That means Higgers to 8 in place of Palu while big Will is on and Fardy retained at 6. Two jumpers only will be too easily combatted by the Saffas.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah - with Skelton on whether starting or off the bench, we need at the same time to have one lock, the 6 and the 8 all legitimate jumpers. That means Higgers to 8 in place of Palu while big Will is on and Fardy retained at 6. Two jumpers only will be too easily combatted by the Saffas.

Palu caught two lineouts in the first Bledisloe and none were called to him in the second.

If Link starts Skelton I don't think he will change Palu for Higgers.

I think there is a small chance Higgers will start at 6 ahead of Fardy but I doubt Fardy will be dropped after one test.

 

[Viking]

Palu caught two lineouts in the first Bledisloe and none were called to him in the second.

If Link starts Skelton I don't think he will change Palu for Higgers.

I think there is a small chance Higgers will start at 6 ahead of Fardy but I doubt Fardy will be dropped after one test.

Hard call on Fardy to be dropped I thought his first Test was very good apart from the 2 early penalties. Higgers would have to be showing some very good form at training - his cameos have been good though. I would be surprised but not overly critical if dropped.

In contrast both White and Beale have had 2 poor Tests in a row. They better be dropped.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hard call on Fardy to be dropped I thought his first Test was very good apart from the 2 early penalties. Higgers would have to be showing some very good form at training - his cameos have been good though. I would be surprised but not overly critical if dropped.

In contrast both White and Beale have had 2 poor Tests in a row. They better be dropped.

That's why I said I only thought there was a small chance for Higgers to start ahead of Fardy and I didn't think it would happen on the basis of one bad test.

I agree that Foley needs to start ahead of Beale but I think calling his first Bledisloe bad is an overstatement as has been discussed ad nauseum after that first test. The press from Australia, New Zealand an elsewhere universally rated his game as solid given the conditions.

White on the other hand did have two bad tests. There hasn't really been any discussion to the contrary.

 

[qwerty51]

Given that the most abrasive and effective Australian-based tight forward (Potgeiter) cannot get into the Saffers squad, I think you are probably on the money there.

Have you watched their last 2 games. In fact go and look at SA's stats from their last match. Worse than us.

 

[Viking]

Have you watched their last 2 games. In fact go and look at SA's stats from their last match. Worse than us.

They still beat a good Argentina pack didn't they? Never underestimate SA they are ranked number 2 in the world for a reason.

 

[Viking]

That's why I said I only thought there was a small chance for Higgers to start ahead of Fardy and I didn't think it would happen on the basis of one bad test.

I agree that Foley needs to start ahead of Beale but I think calling his first Bledisloe bad is an overstatement as has been discussed ad nauseum after that first test. The press from Australia, New Zealand an elsewhere universally rated his game as solid given the conditions.

White on the other hand did have two bad tests. There hasn't really been any discussion to the contrary.

Well many would say Beale was poor first Test. But lets call it average, that's still one poor and one average game and with an in-form Foley in the team I'd imagine he would be getting a start.

Same for Carter too. One average, one poor game, Horwill has his chance to impress in the NRC and I hope he does.

I'd say the front row is pretty safe, Hooker no options, Slipper wallabies best, and Kepu 2 average games but no other decent options.

Higgers for Palu could be a possibility whilst Palu has had a poor game he also has the ability to step up a level.

I want to see changes, players need to be put on notice, step-up or miss out.

 

[Blue]

Given that the most abrasive and effective Australian-based tight forward (Potgeiter) cannot get into the Saffers squad, I think you are probably on the money there.

Right now the Bok pack can do with Potgieter.

Alberts has been shite and then replaced by old man Juan Smith who was nowhere on Saturday. Alberts is supposedly fit again so we'll see if he can play again like last year when he ran through the Wob backline like it was an open barn door.

 

[cyclopath]

Doesn't need to sharpen the bloody thing. Wield the blunt side on a couple of blokes

Made I larf. Nice one!

 

[Blue]

They still beat a good Argentina pack didn't they? Never underestimate SA they are ranked number 2 in the world for a reason.

For 60 minutes they were losing until Adriaan Strauss and Coetzee came on and completely turned a match.

The first thing Strauss did when he came on was pull the forwards together and he must have read them the riot act because suddenly they woke up.

Bismarck is just an amazing player but Strauss is an incredible leader. So I think to steady the pack Meyer needs to start Strauss. Bring Bismarck on for impact with 30 to go.

 

[Blue]

We probably need 100 scrums to tire the big pricks out before breakdowns and collisions

This BIG South African pack perception is slightly misguided.

There have been tests recently where the Boks were outweighed, which happen more often than not these days.

From memory in a couple of test the Wallaby pack outweighed the Boks but I can't find the stats now.

There is very little in in it when it comes to size these days.