Australia Vs Argentina, September 13, Gold Coast

[ACT Crusader]

Not Jones, but I would have liked to have seen either Horwill or Skelton given a run.

I'm still a bit confused as to why Skelton is suddenly on the outer- he played one of the best Wallaby debuts I have seen in Sydney, and then added spark off the bench in the Bledisloes. But now people are talking him down because of one game in the NRC where he played for a team beaten by 50?
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Agree on the debut barbarian, but not so much on the impact in the Bledisloe tests. I thought he looked limited, particularly in the poor conditions. Short of Link or someone else close to the action coming out and telling the public what he has been specifically asked to work on, we can only speculate that there are things he is lacking.

As an aside, one thing that I've liked about the AB setup over the last few years has been the openess about where players are at and what the work ons are. A couple of years into the Henry reign we started to hear in a very professional and reasonable way why a player wasn't in the squad and then from the dropped player what they had to work on. I think it makes a difference to the public's perceptions about the direction of the organisation.

 

[Wilson]

It's surely last chance for that locking pair though.....

McCalman carried strongly this year so hopefully he can bring that form into this game....

Such a shame Speight isn't fit with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) now out injured.....

Would love to see McCalman make the step up, we could really use the depth going into the world cup.

 

[qwerty51]

I know he's always injured but amazing TPN has only 49 Tests after debuting in 2005.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Surprised that Carter starting - really thought Horwill would get and probably deserved his shot. He'd want to have a big game or the HOOK will come searching for him early...

 

[BDA]

Would have liked to have seen Skelton get a run.

I probably would have chosen Tomane over Betham too.

 

[ChargerWA]

In the cold sober dawn of morn, there probably shouldnt be any surprise Link has opted to retain the starting loose forwards (excepting injured Palu).

If he makes wholesale changes and we get smashed by the Argies pack it looks like he has over reacted. These 5 guys in the scheme of things are the potential best players we have in these positions (except maybe Carter, juries out). This is a great litmus test. We are playing against a team who we are comfortably above in the world standings (though that gap is closing every year) at home. If these guys can't get one over the Argies this week then they need to be looked at, win, lose or draw.

It's hard to change a team based on a win against either SA or NZ. Espescially forwards whose job was made infinitely harded by poor kicking from the backs.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I know he's always injured but amazing TPN has only 49 Tests after debuting in 2005.

That surprised me too considering Simmons has 42 since debut in 2010 and Slipper has 54 also since 2010

 

[Marcelo]

Well, Slipper-TPN-Kepu is the best front row at the moment, then if they can't against Argie front row, no Wallabies front row could win against them.

 

[Braveheart81]

Polota-Nau debuted in the 2005 EOYT but it wasn't until 2008 that he consistently became the second choice hooker.

2010 and 2013 were the two years he played barely any test rugby since due to injury.

 

[Tomikin]

Surprised that Carter starting - really thought Horwill would get and probably deserved his shot. He'd want to have a big game or the HOOK will come searching for him early.

Although to be fair we drew with the All Blacks lost to them then beat the Bok. Not that bad really. And I think Link knows what his got with Horwill. Maybe his trying to get as many caps into the others before the WC.

 

[Tomikin]

Would have liked to have seen Skelton get a run.

I probably would have chosen Tomane over Betham too.

Tomane looked pants for the Vikings, I think his short of a run. Needs another game in the NRC.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think if Carter had a great game Link may have dropped Simmo.

 

[wamberal]

Not Jones, but I would have liked to have seen either Horwill or Skelton given a run.

I'm still a bit confused as to why Skelton is suddenly on the outer- he played one of the best Wallaby debuts I have seen in Sydney, and then added spark off the bench in the Bledisloes. But now people are talking him down because of one game in the NRC where he played for a team beaten by 50?
.

"People" do not select the team, though, do they?

I, for one, have consistently argued that Skelton has to learn the basic elements of playing in the second row before he can play at the top level. Starting with winning, and defending, lineouts consistently and effectively. Its okay to bring a player like him on for a cameo, but there is absolutely no way that he can start against a top tier rugby nation at the moment. He has some strengths, but too many limitations. As well as getting off the ground at lineouts and restarts he also has to learn to adapt a conventional, low, body height, particularly in attack. An occasional off-load works if you are a back, forwards have to do the head-down bum-up stuff most of the time.

One game in the NRC means zip, either way.

 

[barbarian]

I'm sorry wamberal but I can't agree.

I tend to be skeptical of talk of 'traditional roles' as it applies to the modern game. I tend to look at the unique attributes a player can bring to a team, and how that fits in with those around him.

Hooper has a running game unparalleled in Aussie rugby at the moment. He isn't a gun breakdown 7 (though he is still good), but we have Fardy who makes up for that with his skills, so it all fits.

Skelton isn't a lineout jumper, but he brings so much else around the field and the skills of those around him can compensate for this (Fardy and Palu especially). He gave us 14 points off his own bat against the French, how many lineouts can make up for that?

And I don't accept the criticism of his body height either, because he isn't being held up or knocked back in the tackle because of it. Running high actually works to his advantage as it makes him so much harder to bring down and gives him more time to stand in the tackle and get an offload away.

Skelton is never going to be John Eales, and we shouldn't try to turn Will into him.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

What are you comparing him to Wamberal?

The lineout on Saturday won 70% of our own throw and 0% of the opposition's.

It seems hard to hold it against Skelton that he's not good in the lineout when the people who are good in the lineout aren't really doing anything of note.

He's around 140kg. We'll probably work out that a player that size can never be that good in the lineout. We might waste a lot of time trying to work that out though.

Adam Ashley-Cooper is one of the best exponents of the kick off (either receiving or trying to win our kick offs). Why does a lock have to be good at this?

You seem to want him to match a traditional idea of what a certain player should do rather than looking at what he can do that others can't and trying to come up with a team that does everything well.

Surely the biggest thing that has changed in rugby in the last 20 years is players across the park developing skillsets they didn't previously have. At the top level you can fully expect the opposition winger to win a turnover at the breakdown if an opposition player gets isolated or for a tight head prop to seemlessly participate in an overlap and put their outside man away for a try.

 

[Tomikin]

"People" do not select the team, though, do they?

I, for one, have consistently argued that Skelton has to learn the basic elements of playing in the second row before he can play at the top level. Starting with winning, and defending, lineouts consistently and effectively. Its okay to bring a player like him on for a cameo, but there is absolutely no way that he can start against a top tier rugby nation at the moment. He has some strengths, but too many limitations. As well as getting off the ground at lineouts and restarts he also has to learn to adapt a conventional, low, body height, particularly in attack. An occasional off-load works if you are a back, forwards have to do the head-down bum-up stuff most of the time.

One game in the NRC means zip, either way.

I would argue he already has started against a top tier team in France. But I get your point. Skeltons young he has time, he will get better. He has a skill set that is different it's about strenghing his weak spots and using his strong spots.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Skelton isn't a lineout jumper, but he brings so much else around the field and the skills of those around him can compensate for this (Fardy and Palu especially). He gave us 14 points off his own bat against the French, how many lineouts can make up for that?

Exactly right. The only concern about his set piece ability, should be can he bring enough else to the table to make his weaknesses worthwhile. He certainly did in the French game. I disagree he did against the All Blacks though. He worked fine in a cameo role though.

 

[wamberal]

I would argue he already has started against a top tier team in France. But I get your point. Skeltons young he has time, he will get better. He has a skill set that is different it's about strenghing his weak spots and using his strong spots.

Errr, yes. That's what I have been saying.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Skelton just needs some of those kangaroo peptides

 

[Tomikin]

Errr, yes. That's what I have been saying.

Sorry not how I read it but I just breezed past it while working.. All good