• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Australian Rugby / RA

drewprint

Colin Windon (37)
Love this post. Found myself nodding with most of it. Especially love the thoughts on Super Rugby and comps like NRL thriving off salary cap talk etc. most big sports these days are making most of their engagement off the field than on it. Anyone that watches US sports will realise 99% of podcasts, tv shows talk about trades, player behaviors, etc. football is the same, there is people who watch game highlights but follow teams religiously from who’s buying who. We are generally a conservative bunch but rugby missing so much in the off field engagement with how teams are run and put together it’s all a little too civil and anti climactic
It’s such an important point. A mate of mine likens the NRL to a soap opera - there’s always drama, intrigue, constant content and developments, all drip fed basically daily. Which all creates a huge amount of fan engagement.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Been mulling over all of this garbage ALOT over the past few days. Gone through the whole gamut of emotions: shock and anger, but now mainly just fear for the game I love. Some thoughts:

<clip>

Nice to see some clear thinking.

Look, I don't agree on the ANZAC linkage, nor do I agree on Super being the correct product. But we have apparently locked in a 10 year rugby sentence with Super. The proposal continues the top-down approach that has gotten us in this mess. I would actually prefer handing the keys to RA HQ to the SRU and say "go for it".

Better would be a National Comp with a local champion (a la Covid domestic series) would be far superior, followed by a shorter cross Tasman where the Aus teams go through a selection for say two teams (not unlike SOO). Have the Wallaby coaching team split and augmented with the National coaches for those rep teams. I guess that would be an Aus-centric pathway as who knows what impact in NZ.

If we are to follow more-or-less the current Super format, we are in trouble. It hasnt proven enough for funding 5 teams to success and shrinkage exacerbates the issue for the short term gain in quality and a dubious gain to the Wallabies. It is however fundamental that an on-going Super comp actively interupts the status quo to ensure a much less lop-sided comp. Talent availability and encouragement to move talent is key. Key to the comp. Perhaps not key to overall quality and the All Blacks. So good luck with imagining greatly improved behaviour from NZRU. But it is what we have.

It will shackle any domestic comp - even starting with the term "third tier" is a killer. Do they call the NRL "third tier"? It sits behind SOO and international afterall. Whether that comp is NRC-esq, or gives the SRU what they want with hangers-on, it really isnt logical to think it will truly flourish behind the "professional game" (Super) which likely wont be flourishing in Australia either.

Still, we appear locked -n and if no-one has the balls to put some TNT under Super, and a dose of salts reality through the Kiwis in terms of what we are willing to accommodate, then as a last man standing option - your plan for Super is close to optimum.

I would determinedly avoid any decisions that preclude or increase the difficulty of parting ways in the future or radically changing things in the future. SO I am not a supporter of independence of the comp. Additionally independence of the comp runs against centralisation within Australia.

FWIW From my POV any form of Super as the driving force to Australian rugby is another train hitting the previous train-wreck in slo mo. We have hit an inflection point, more of the same that got us here is, well insert your own adjective.

On a personal level, I really don't know where I now head with my rugby support. I am struggling to escape genuine indifference to the Wallabies and I'm highly unlikely to have a different view to any Super game involving a Kiwi team. If you genuinely support a Super product going forward you are going to be hoping there are few fans drifting this way. I am tempered a little but by a genuine interest in how Less Kiss goes at the Reds.

Three things have seriously impacted my support:
1. Shrink to greatness take #1
2. The Rennie European Tour (highlight Italy)
3. The EJ (Eddie Jones) RWC campaign

There is one common thread through that and one only - RA.
 

drewprint

Colin Windon (37)
Nice to see some clear thinking.

Look, I don't agree on the ANZAC linkage, nor do I agree on Super being the correct product. But we have apparently locked in a 10 year rugby sentence with Super. The proposal continues the top-down approach that has gotten us in this mess. I would actually prefer handing the keys to Rugby Australia HQ to the SRU and say "go for it".

Better would be a National Comp with a local champion (a la Covid domestic series) would be far superior, followed by a shorter cross Tasman where the Aus teams go through a selection for say two teams (not unlike SOO). Have the Wallaby coaching team split and augmented with the National coaches for those rep teams. I guess that would be an Aus-centric pathway as who knows what impact in NZ.

If we are to follow more-or-less the current Super format, we are in trouble. It hasnt proven enough for funding 5 teams to success and shrinkage exacerbates the issue for the short term gain in quality and a dubious gain to the Wallabies. It is however fundamental that an on-going Super comp actively interupts the status quo to ensure a much less lop-sided comp. Talent availability and encouragement to move talent is key. Key to the comp. Perhaps not key to overall quality and the All Blacks. So good luck with imagining greatly improved behaviour from NZRU. But it is what we have.

It will shackle any domestic comp - even starting with the term "third tier" is a killer. Do they call the NRL "third tier"? It sits behind SOO and international afterall. Whether that comp is NRC-esq, or gives the SRU what they want with hangers-on, it really isnt logical to think it will truly flourish behind the "professional game" (Super) which likely wont be flourishing in Australia either.

Still, we appear locked -n and if no-one has the balls to put some TNT under Super, and a dose of salts reality through the Kiwis in terms of what we are willing to accommodate, then as a last man standing option - your plan for Super is close to optimum.

I would determinedly avoid any decisions that preclude or increase the difficulty of parting ways in the future or radically changing things in the future. SO I am not a supporter of independence of the comp. Additionally independence of the comp runs against centralisation within Australia.

FWIW From my POV any form of Super as the driving force to Australian rugby is another train hitting the previous train-wreck in slo mo. We have hit an inflection point, more of the same that got us here is, well insert your own adjective.

On a personal level, I really don't know where I now head with my rugby support. I am struggling to escape genuine indifference to the Wallabies and I'm highly unlikely to have a different view to any Super game involving a Kiwi team. If you genuinely support a Super product going forward you are going to be hoping there are few fans drifting this way. I am tempered a little but by a genuine interest in how Less Kiss goes at the Reds.

Three things have seriously impacted my support:
1. Shrink to greatness take #1
2. The Rennie European Tour (highlight Italy)
3. The EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) RWC campaign

There is one common thread through that and one only - Rugby Australia.
Thanks dru. Some really good points here, many of which I agree with too. Which is a contradiction isn’t it, given my lengthy original post? But it goes to show I don’t know the way forward either.

A big part of what I wrote goes forward on the premise at Super Rugby continues as been locked in. But like you I do wonder about what things would look like without it. I’ve been thinking a lot of about that too - burning everything down and starting again. Just have say 16 licenses, open 13 or them them up to the SRU and QPR clubs to pitch for, and enshrine Canberra, Melbourne, and Perth in it? Part of me does wonder whether this is best.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Thanks dru. Some really good points here, many of which I agree with too. Which is a contradiction isn’t it, given my lengthy original post? But it goes to show I don’t know the way forward either.

A big part of what I wrote goes forward on the premise at Super Rugby continues as been locked in. But like you I do wonder about what things would look like without it. I’ve been thinking a lot of about that too - burning everything down and starting again. Just have say 16 licenses, open 13 or them them up to the SRU and QPR clubs to pitch for, and enshrine Canberra, Melbourne, and Perth in it? Part of me does wonder whether this is best.

It's not a contradiction at all, mate. I wouldn't be surprised right now, for genuine fans, that it is completely normal.

We are left as spectators of a sunk ship where the second rate officers have been replaced by the deck hands and baggage haulers. Nothing to do but sit back and wait out the next episode of #how to kill a code.
 

stillmissit

Desmond Connor (43)
Yeah, that'll do it. :rolleyes:
I read that McLennan is still banging his NRL player drum as of yesterday. Rich guys think they just have to throw good money after bad, even better if it's not theirs.
The simplest thing to do would be to ensure the talented school kids are kept in the fold, at the moment we seem to have no idea who they are.
 
Last edited:

HooperPocockSmith

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Interesting video on how France play like Eddie wanted us to with 3 phases and kick but he couldn't do it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/16h6lp1
- We get dominated in the collisions
- Our accuracy at attacking breakdowns is woeful
- The kicking of our 9/10/15 leaves a lot to be desired
- Our set piece is hit-and-miss
- Worst discipline in World Rugby (not sure if the stats support this but it feels like it)
- We have very poor defensive structure(s)

Overall, I don't know if we have the discipline to play this type of rugby, and I'm not sure if the players know what the purpose of a strategy like this is. Also, we have blokes down in Coogee yelling from the top of Alison Rd that we need to play 'running rugby'. So, these tactics aren't taught /developed at lower levels.

EDIT: We also don't get anywhere near the same level of analysis on our broadcast. Hence, there's no challenge to the hegemonic tactics that pervade Australian rugby.
 

LeCheese

Ken Catchpole (46)

John S

Desmond Connor (43)
The thing that gets me - and the reason he can just make like a sheep and get the flock out of here - is that in that whole rant, there's a lot about "accountability" and saying people need to leave, and not very much other substance. Yeah, accountability is good in and of itself, but how do you manage it? What's the plan to actually move forward other than just kicking people out while we're down?

There's no plan, no solution. No wonder RA have at the least given him a cold shoulder. He's got to learn he needs to be in the tent pissing out, not outside the tent pissing into it.

Maybe he's presented a plan, and maybe RA haven't liked it - so stop whinging and saying they aren't listening - change/adapt. But he's too set in his tracks.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
There's no plan, no solution. No wonder Rugby Australia have at the least given him a cold shoulder. He's got to learn he needs to be in the tent pissing out, not outside the tent pissing into it.

This is a good summary of where he's been for the last 20 years.

He's shown almost no interest at being inside the tent.

A couple of years ago he thought they should make him head coach of the Waratahs despite no involvement in anything over a long period of time and no relevant experience.

His MO for years has just been to have a dig when things aren't going well but offering absolutely nothing constructive to help solve the problems at hand.
 

noscrumnolife

Jimmy Flynn (14)

Great article. Both Byrne and Anderson have same thoughts re Super teams - not necessary to cut one. They (and other commentators) have changed my mind and I don't see it as necessary either. I think we are starting to see fruits from the Melbourne pathway, and I think it would be a mistake to exit WA. The NRL is looking to expand to 20 teams in the next 10 years. One thing is for certain - if there is no Force, there will 100% be a Perth NRL team.

It is borderline criminal how much Rugby IP we have let walk out of our doors and not listened to over the last twenty years.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
I'm curious how they intend to hold John O'Neill and Bill Pulver responsible for this mess. Egg their house?

The crazies coming out of the woodwork suddenly has been somewhat eye opening eh.
 

GPSlads

Chris McKivat (8)
Let’s cut more teams - great idea - have less opportunities for players

I have an idea - let’s have just one super rugby team .. that way we have a 100% cohesive playing style .. smh
 

HooperPocockSmith

Jimmy Flynn (14)

Great article. Both Byrne and Anderson have same thoughts re Super teams - not necessary to cut one. They (and other commentators) have changed my mind and I don't see it as necessary either. I think we are starting to see fruits from the Melbourne pathway, and I think it would be a mistake to exit WA. The NRL is looking to expand to 20 teams in the next 10 years. One thing is for certain - if there is no Force, there will 100% be a Perth NRL team.

It is borderline criminal how much Rugby IP we have let walk out of our doors and not listened to over the last twenty years.
I'd love to see who actually got an interview for the position.
 

Goosestep

Johnnie Wallace (23)


“I still think the answer in that underbelly lies within our current club structures where they have all their traditions and cultures and all that sort of stuff in place.”
 

Wilson

Simon Poidevin (60)
I'm curious how they intend to hold John O'Neill and Bill Pulver responsible for this mess. Egg their house?

The crazies coming out of the woodwork suddenly has been somewhat eye opening eh.
Take them off the invite list for the old boys dinners?
 
Top