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Australian Rugby / RA

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
They undermine their whole argument by saying that on one hand elite mens rugby isn’t that important but at the same time his involvement in their failure is the only tangible reason that they want him to resign

And they are singling out Sua’ilii, as he’s the only player that has been poached. And when has league ever been up for “collaborative discussions”?

My reading between the lines of that letter and the timing of it all is they’re inferring the NRLs recent approaches to Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) and the gaining momentum of salary cap relief to poach rugby players are a direct causation of Hamish’s antagonism towards league earlier this year.
 

Wilson

Simon Poidevin (60)
And when has league ever been up for “collaborative discussions”?
A few examples here, but there have been plenty more over the years:


There's a long history of collaborative approaches between coaches across the codes in Australia and in most markets there's more to be gained working together than engaging in the petty squabbles.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Yeah… it’s the all important one-off cross code sessions during pre-season that is the reason for this, and nothing to do with those unions being asked to give up some power and control for a new centralisation model for Australian rugby.

If they were at least honest about their intent and reasons rather than deflecting to crap about cross-code collaboration I might have more respect for them.
 

Tomthumb

Colin Windon (37)
A few examples here, but there have been plenty more over the years:


There's a long history of collaborative approaches between coaches across the codes in Australia and in most markets there's more to be gained working together than engaging in the petty squabbles.
And all of these can and will still happen

These are clubs, Not the NRL as a whole or the ARL
 

Tomthumb

Colin Windon (37)
My reading between the lines of that letter and the timing of it all is they’re inferring the NRLs recent approaches to Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) and the gaining momentum of salary cap relief to poach rugby players are a direct causation of Hamish’s antagonism towards league earlier this year.
Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) hasn’t gone anywhere yet, at the salary cap nonsense is pie in the sky stuff that would cause more problems than it solves for the NRL
 

LeCheese

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I personally think that, plainly, Hamish has (alongside Eddie) acted like an absolute goose on several occasions and damaged whatever semblance of credibility and respect both RA and the game in this country have left.

Irrespective of whether recent failures and longer-standing issues can solely be attributed to his actions (hint: of course they can't), how Hammer's gone about it is the issue.
 

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) hasn’t gone anywhere yet, at the salary cap nonsense is pie in the sky stuff that would cause more problems than it solves for the NRL

Whether or not it actually eventuates is only a concern for the future. But the antagonism towards poaching and our ‘hit list’ has just created a pissing competition with the NRL and if push comes to shove, they’d win that.

All of Hamish’s (and Eddie’s) chest beating around the RWC to then fall flat on our arses have left us open to a couple of body shots from the NRL. They may as well take some now and rattle the cages.
 

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
Everyone on these forums also lately seems to be a keyboard expert in both rugby and the NRL, despite rubbishing the other code for majority of the year.

Don’t be so keen to write off any legitimate salary cap relief for clubs to get the best of the best from rugby (here and around the world).

PVL is a lot of things, but he’s clearly got the right levers to pull in the industries he runs and makes money for them. If he manages to pull off a semi reasonable product in the USA next year (alongside some potential high profile Aussie boxing) I think the powerbrokers at the NRL will be quite willing to keep his ideas rolling, or at least give some others a trial.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
an interesting post on LinkedIn I just saw that has all the rugby participation leads from across the country working together for a couple of days on strategies and programs. So that’s a great sign. But one the people named was Mark Gasnier. Assume that is the leaguie - anyone know what he’s doing now? Is he with NSW rugby?
 

LeCheese

Peter Fenwicke (45)
an interesting post on LinkedIn I just saw that has all the rugby participation leads from across the country working together for a couple of days on strategies and programs. So that’s a great sign. But one the people named was Mark Gasnier. Assume that is the leaguie - anyone know what he’s doing now? Is he with NSW rugby?
Looks like he started up Tri Tag Rugby
Tri Tag Rugby is a minimal contact, low injury risk, attack-based rugby union game that incorporates theskill set and fabric of traditional rugby. It allows participants of all genders, ages, shapes & sizes toparticipate in unisex, female and male competitions.
 

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
an interesting post on LinkedIn I just saw that has all the rugby participation leads from across the country working together for a couple of days on strategies and programs. So that’s a great sign. But one the people named was Mark Gasnier. Assume that is the leaguie - anyone know what he’s doing now? Is he with NSW rugby?

He played a number of seasons of French rugby didn’t he?
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
That's because all we ever do is come up with some issue without ever dealing with the real issue.

Centralization, Broadcast Deal, Coaching, Pathways, Grassroots, Global Market, ffs its a bloody merry go round.

Its like sitting on a couch and never mentioning the Elephant sitting next to you and its been sitting there for 20 bloody years.

Until you address Super Rugby, this is all just another waste of time, go ahead and get another Chairman or CEO or whatever he is, Centralize your little heart away. It just a big fuc___g waste of time.

The business model is fuc___d, have you ever wondered why all these code saving changes never quite happen, but every year we're told just do this and things will get better.

Go ahead and get rid of McLennan and Centralize away, that way we can move onto the next great thing to fix Australian rugby.
Can I ask what you would propose instead of SuperRugby? (or point me to your post if you've already discussed this)

I've seen a lot of hypothetically this or that models thrown around, but I really wonder if people have any sense to how much upfront capital you would need to shift to something other than SuperRugby.
 

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
Given the position of so many of our state unions, particularly the Reds, Brumbies and Force, it seems impossible that any sort of centralisation of any model to come into force while McLennan is chairman. Regardless of what you think of him (not a fan personally) he must go for the good of the game. That has to come before any individual's ego.
 

John S

Desmond Connor (43)

Hamish given an additional 24hrs after the second board meeting yesterday. Apparently he didn't take place in the first, but did in the second.
It was the second RA board meeting of the day, and sources with knowledge of the discussions, who requested anonymity because the talks were confidential, said several members of the board expressed a view it would be in the game’s best interest for McLennan to stand down.

McLennan, who rejected a joint call to stand down delivered by the Queensland, ACT, WA, Northern Territory, South Australian and Tasmanian rugby unions on Friday night, was initially given until 5pm on Saturday to resign or the rebel group would formally request an extraordinary general meeting.
 

PhilClinton

John Hipwell (52)
I’m sure I’m not the only person to pickup on this but Waugh drawing a line earlier last week on a number issues and highlighting the importance of responsible spending etc was surely spurred from a tap on the shoulder by a couple of the state unions about what was about to go down, or he’s come across something downwind and didn’t want to get caught on the wrong side.

Seems too convenient.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Mark Ella (57)
You’re probably right but it would be a nice change to have someone able to catch wind of what the community is doing/feeling. If he wants to take up the good fight then so be it. He didn’t say or repeat anything that wasn’t true.

We don’t need a Chairman’s footrest for CEO.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Interesting thoughts BR. I disagree a fair bit, but respect what you are saying so hope that is clear if it doesn't come across.

The way I think about it is this: the vast majority of successful national teams have 1-2 clubs they are really linked to. Great recent ABs teams are linked to the Crusaders. England to Saracens, Leicester in the past. Ireland to Leinster. France to Toulouse. Australia and the Brumbies in the Super Rugby era. South Africa are the really prominent exception atm. I don't want us to go full Leinster and stack the Tahs or the Reds. I find it pretty uninteresting. But I think a hand on the tiller to bring our main 2,9,10,15 together is a good thing. I don't really care which team it is either. FWIW If it had to choose one it would be the Brumbies because they have demonstrated over time competency on the rugby side of things.

Should it though? If we were singing from the same song-sheet, hiring coaches with similarish principles, methodologies and practices I think it would be of great benefit. Brumbies aside there have been some frankly shocking coaching appointments by the franchises over Super Rugby history. That does need to be balanced amongst the need for diversity across the Super teams though, I'll concede.

Agreed they don't need to 'own' the franchises, and I am indifferent somewhat to the commercial side of things (whole other story I don't think centralisation can solve). But I think we need to abstract Super Rugby from the interests of the local area. The Super teams are professional organisations. Their existence is intended to 1) generate revenue and 2) develop talent for the Wallabies. All decisions about them should be designed to achieve those ambitions.

I agree they should have agreement around the detail. My issue has been the way the conversation has been framed by the Brumbies and QRU in particular (but especially the Brumbies if I'm honest). As this dramatic 'hostile takeover' clearly designed to offside the fanbase with the concept of centralisation. They are just as blameful as the hammer for their inability to act like adults and hash it out in a room. I find the whole discourse around it from professional executives incredibly childish.
Just a couple of follow up thoughts nsnl.

The stated outcome of the current centralisation negotiations is for RA to take over the licences of all franchises. Is that not exactly the same as owning those franchises? The state unions would be left with only the local comps and schools, I believe.

If the intention is as you say to generate revenue and develop talent for the Wallabies, then it is easy to envision the Sydney based personalities arguing to revert to a two state competition which would significantly reduce costs (and hence increase revenue) and allow the more concentrated talent pools to be developing the Wallabies in the image someone at the top has in his tiny mind. I don't include the Reds or Qld RU in any moves to diminish the franchises in other states but it is not simply a tin foil hat moment to see such moves down the track by a Sydney-based organisation.
 

Wallaby Man

Trevor Allan (34)
Sounds like Victoria is divided on their approach. From what I understand the Rebels right this moment would support the push to remove Hamish but the VRU wouldn’t support. WA appears the opposite with Force not supportive but rugby WA happy to see the back of Hamish.
 
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