Australian Rugby / RA

[Slayer!]

which 14,000 seat stadium in Toowoomba?/

That would be the 4500-seat Berghofer "Stadium".
You'd be better off just choosing the (mighty) Goondiwindi Emus.

 

[Merrow]

Much at all lol

For a game that is struggling domestically, there seems to be little to zero willingness to engage with the local fan.

I reckon my son has had about the same, if not more opportunities to meet rugby stars from visiting Aotearoa teams than Brumby players.

6yrs of playing and there has been a Brumby presence at two trainings - including rep rugby.

There are only 7 clubs in Canberra and maybe 3-4 schools that play. How hard could it be to do something with the kids and get them excited about rugby?

That’s my thoughts anyway.

How hard can it be to get kids excited about rugby? Doesn’t look like anyone in Oz or NZ has the answer to that one. During Covid, the development officers were the first to go in most of the Super Rugby teams. There’s obviously a lot of ground to be made up.

7 clubs in first div but many others that you’re not taking into account. Batemans Bay, Broulee, Cooma, Jindabyne, Goulburn, Queanbeyan, Yass, Young just for starters. Most of which play in the lower divs of the junior comp, and these are the clubs that they seem to be putting more work into than the local schools atm. Also, there’s more like 8 private schools just in the immediate region, but even with those, they’ve been doing a weekly training session at their grounds in the last 12 months.

I’m not saying that everything’s been rosy for their entire existence but in saying that, we never got a no when we asked for players to come to presentation days, etc. We’ve obviously had different experiences within ACT Rugby.

 

[Rebel man]

How hard can it be to get kids excited about rugby? Doesn’t look like anyone in Oz or NZ has the answer to that one. During Covid, the development officers were the first to go in most of the Super Rugby teams. There’s obviously a lot of ground to be made up.

7 clubs in first div but many others that you’re not taking into account. Batemans Bay, Broulee, Cooma, Jindabyne, Goulburn, Queanbeyan, Yass, Young just for starters. Most of which play in the lower divs of the junior comp, and these are the clubs that they seem to be putting more work into than the local schools atm. Also, there’s more like 8 private schools just in the immediate region, but even with those, they’ve been doing a weekly training session at their grounds in the last 12 months.

I’m not saying that everything’s been rosy for their entire existence but in saying that, we never got a no when we asked for players to come to presentation days, etc. We’ve obviously had different experiences within ACT Rugby.

It’s not about getting kids excited it’s about keeping them in the game by providing a pathway for them

 

[Merrow]

It’s not about getting kids excited it’s about keeping them in the game by providing a pathway for them

I was responding to Bullrush and no it’s not all about pathways. Your average kid will play what they want to play and want to play with their mates. One of mine played for 15 years, the other two for two years. They all still go out and watch every home game and they’re now into their 20’s. The engagement of the team at the games helped to keep bringing them back week on week. You want bums on seats as much as you want players in pathways. If they’re both, even better.

 

[Rebel man]

I was responding to Bullrush and no it’s not all about pathways. Your average kid will play what they want to play and want to play with their mates. One of mine played for 15 years, the other two for two years. They all still go out and watch every home game and they’re now into their 20’s. The engagement of the team at the games helped to keep bringing them back week on week. You want bums on seats as much as you want players in pathways. If they’re both, even better.

It is about pathways, most kids play multiple sports as soon as another sport has a pathway to go pro so many kids then leave

 

[The Red Baron]

It is about pathways, most kids play multiple sports as soon as another sport has a pathway to go pro so many kids then leave

I can see @Merrow 's point though, you want both. Not every kid is going to go pro, but you want to retain them as part of your supporter base.

 

[Rebel man]

I can see @Merrow 's point though, you want both. Not every kid is going to go pro, but you want to retain them as part of your supporter base.

Most kids who make development squads never go pro but it keeps them engaged in the sport chasing their dream

 

[noscrumnolife]

Not sure why it has to be one or the other. Without kids excited by the sport no one will enter a pathway. Without a pathway there is little value to getting a kid excited.

 

[hoggy]

It is about pathways, most kids play multiple sports as soon as another sport has a pathway to go pro so many kids then leave

Well then, would not the best option be having a better professional footprint at a domestic level. Take NSW you have what 10 professional Rugby League teams offering Professional pathways, Two pro AFL Teams and 3 or 4 Professional Football teams. Rugby Union has one The "Waratahs"

So how does Rugby Union compete with those other sports then, when they are clearly offering better pathways.

 

[Rebel man]

Well then, would not the best option be having a better professional footprint at a domestic level. Take NSW you have what 10 professional Rugby League teams offering Professional pathways, Two pro AFL Teams and 3 or 4 Professional Football teams. Rugby Union has one The "Waratahs"

So how does Rugby Union compete with those other sports then, when they are clearly offering better pathways.

Look it’s a big issue. Neither the Hospital Cup or the Shute Shield are fit for purpose

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

How do you think the French and English clubs operated before professionalisation?

 

[Slim 293]

How do you think the French and English clubs operated before professionalisation?

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume their respective situations were not similar…

 

[Highlander35]

Leagues were not a thing in England until the late 80s: there was a very very anti-13 man game sentiment, thinking that creating leagues was a guaranteed pathway to both "dirty" rugby (after all, if winning actually matters, people might go too far!) and professionalism in general: hence mostly was restricted to fixtures mutually agreed between clubs plus a cup style competition.

In the late 80s you got a single round robin competition, which stayed that way until the mid 90s: when they shifted to a full double round robin. By the turn of the century quickly you saw the loss of the several arms of formerly big/prestigious clubs from the likes of Hartlepool, Scottish and Richmond going into administration.

Very different environment to here, where invitational leagues without formal pyramidding have clearly been the norm for a long long time, maybe even pre-split?

 

[Sully]

A reminder to not make personal comments about other forum users. If you can't be respectful don't post at all.

 

[Rebel man]

My plan for Aus Rugby

Firstly as we start off I would open selection to any eligible Australian. While I know this isn’t popular long term structural change will take time. By allowing us to pick our best side with no restrictions will help us remain competitive while we wait for longer term solutions to bare fruit.

Secondly I would use all the money they are planning to borrow to set up a proper pathway.

It’s my opinion that neither the Shute Shield or Hospitals cup are fit for purpose.

The key issues they suburban comps and don’t provide pathways for kids outside of the city and don’t engage with the wider community as a result. Secondly they are under funded. Each TAC Cup program has a full time talent coordinator then part time coaches.

Look at the foot print of the hospitals cup 8 Brisbane clubs and one from the Gold Coast. Compare that to the Queensland cup that has teams in Cairns, Townsville, McKay, Rockhampton, the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast. Again the Shute Shield has 12 clubs, 11 in Sydney.

30 years ago the AFL made the decision to shut the 19s comp for the VFL clubs. As they could see the game was becoming more professional and they had to provide better pathways for potential athletes. When you look at some of the names that have come out of the country sides (not including Geelong as the Falcons just replaced the Cats 19s) you have guys like Scott Pendlebury, Dustin Martin, Jeremy Cameron, Steele Sidebottom, Clayton Oliver, Joel Selwood, Josh Dunkley, Harry and Ben McKay, Sam Docherty, Dyson Heppel, Dale Thomas, Jarryd Roughead, Chris Tarrant, Nick Dal Santo, Ollie Wines, Adams Goodes, Jarrod Berry, Hugh McCluggage, Jake Stringer, Jack Ziebell, Tom Rockliff, Ben McEvoy, Ben Reid, Brett Deledio, David Mundy, Steve Johnson, Jarrod Waite and Josh Fraser. As well as supplying the 2022 number one pick Arron Camden and the 2023 number one pick Harley Reid.

The point being while the depth of talent in regional Queensland and NSW wouldn’t be at the same level as the depth of Aussie rules in regional Victoria we are still missing out on so many potential athletes by not having a framework that provides them a proper pathway for these kids.

The role of the talent manager is to help develop the game, they work with the local coaches facilitating coaching development sessions. They also get feedback from the coaches on who they would recommend for the rep sides so when the talent scouts go to watch the games they know who to look out for. They also liaise with the state programs and professional clubs about who they believe can make it to the next level.

So say you restructured the state comps to have 6 regional teams in Queensland and 8 metropolitan. Say 5 regional teams in NSW, 5 in Sydney and 4 in west Sydney. You can then build off that, having the best players play Queensland County, Brisbane, NSW Country, Sydney City, West Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Perth. Have your age groups u/16s u/18s u/20s with the option of when the talent develops to bring back the senior comp.

Not only will investment in development staff at the metro clubs better prepare and up-skill young players and coaches. It will also help us engage the broader rugby community.

The NRC never really worked because it was arbitrary in how players were split between city and county teams without giving representation to the country teams.

 

[Blue]

All fair and well but without central contracting and a centrally run high-performance system that starts with the kids when they are 13/14 forget it.

Oh, and you might want to move a few other obstacles out of the way.

The self-pity party of Hamish McLennan

The Rugby Australia chairman blamed ‘the system’ after the exit of Wallabies coach Eddie Jones, parking any personal responsibility for the mess the game finds itself in.

www.afr.com

 

[Dctarget]

Been curious to see Mark Di Stefano write about rugby so much, didn't realise it was in his wheelhouse.

 

[Braveheart81]

Been curious to see Mark Di Stefano write about rugby so much, didn't realise it was in his wheelhouse.

He's taken over from Joe Aston on Rear Window.

 

[noscrumnolife]

I thought Waugh spoke pretty well tbh in his press conference. I've been a sucker for words before so I don't put too much stock into it. But he came across as pretty pragmatic which I appreciated. It is for fans to emotionally shit the bed, not our administrators. Cool heads are what we need at the moment.

He was also at pains to call out the "role model" comment Eddie made re Hooper etc. Which personally I thought was a bit of a storm in a teacup (as almost everything Eddie says is because of the way its reported) but regardless I thought was a good move from him.

 

[Dctarget]

No matter how much rugby admin sucks, we can never be worse than FIFA. Looks like Saudia Arabia will host 2034 World Cup. Though probably can't guarantee that WR (World Rugby) goes the sport washing route for some extra cash sometime soon.