Australian Rugby / RA

[Serge]

From a practical perspective, there is a facilities dimension to any 3rd tier competition that looks to develop players and grow the supporter base.

Players should expect to play on good surfaces, with ample space to warm up. Assuming there will be both a mens and womens 3rd tier then there should be at least four dressing sheds at each ground; along with a proper medical room and match officials changing facilities. An onsite gym would also be preferable. Each 3rd tier club should expect to be based out of one of these grounds for both training and home games.

To encourage growth of a supporter base, fans should be encouraged to attend through low costs, ease of access and good spectator options. To this end any prospective facility should be able to provide plenty of free (or very cheap) parking - potentially on adjacent playing fields alongside dedicated car parks. The ground should ideally be able to host large numbers of spectators on all sides of the playing area and have numerous catering nodes available. Families provided with easy access, low cost, high quality sport options will potentially gravitate to that sport.

 

[Caputo]

When Jake White was coaching at the Brumbies, I went to a members night where Jake explained why he stopped the Brumbies players playing in the Shute Shield and were required to play in the JID.

That for the players to compete in the Shute Shield they would leave at lunch time on Thursday to make training at the SS Club for Thursday night and return Monday morning.

He was upset that his players were only with the Brumbies for 3 1/2 days. Jake's change has lived on and the JID is a robust 6 team competition with East & Penrith gone.

Other benefits include that it is Brumby contracted and the Wider Training Group playing JID. An example in Massimo De Lutis came down unheralded post school and developed and brained it at Under 20 with the subsequent QLD Reds contract.

 

[Adam84]

Well If SS clubs play QPR clubs in a club Championship, Brumbies players are still free to remain in the JID if that’s where they see the greater development.

Rebels are happy to have players in the QPR/SS, and I believe a handful of Force players did it in 2023 also.

 

[dru]

SS v QPR is hardly national, and from that not third tier. Or at least well incomplete as a third tier. It continues the east coast elite approach - in this case for pathways. So not much of a positive development in the whole centralisation process. Centralised but some are more equal than others.

As a starting process, fine, but there is a long way to go from there.

 

[Tazzmania]

I believe a handful of Force players did it in 2023 also.

I think it was mainly the players from Sydney who would have gone back to potential family and friends environment,. If we are trying to grow the WA base this is not going to help our pathways.

Thankfully our South African friends the Cheetahs were happy to organise a four match series so that we could have a "third tier style" mini comp to help us, help that should now be coming from our own rugby family.

 

[Adam84]

I think it was mainly the players from Sydney who would have gone back to potential family and friends environment,. If we are trying to grow the WA base this is not going to help our pathways.

Thankfully our South African friends the Cheetahs were happy to organise a four match series so that we could have a "third tier style" mini comp to help us, help that should now be coming from our own rugby family.

So we can’t have a SS v QPR club championship because it doesn’t involve WA?

Every other option tabled for an extended rugby season either costs too much money, or creates some smash of artificial teams that have zero community engagement.

Until the perfect 3rd tier reveals itself, let’s at least build on what we have and make some improvements even if it isn’t the step change that suits everyone’s demands.

 

[Tazzmania]

So we can’t have a SS v QPR club championship because it doesn’t involve WA?

Every other option tabled for an extended rugby season either costs too much money, or creates some smash of artificial teams that have zero community engagement.

So what do WA teams and players do for a third tier???????

or do they not matter

 

[Adam84]

So what do WA teams and players do for a third tier???????

or do they not matter

Didn’t you just say the Force will continue playing against the Cheetahs? Which is an arguably high level of competition anyway.

 

[Tazzmania]

Didn’t you just say the Force will continue playing against the Cheetahs? Which is an arguably high level of competition anyway.

No I said they helped us this year, not sure what will happen going forward.

Irrespective. Why must we make our own competition, surely we can expect an Australian third tier to be inclusive not exclusive.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Under the assumption that there's no contracting or structural changes for players - i.e., literally just grabbing the top club teams as they were this year - it's not really feasible to pull players away from home (and their main jobs) for a few of weeks. A weekly weekend comp, with a travel day on Friday, would be more doable, but even still it could be a big ask for some.

We really need a standalone, professional, third-tier competition with representation from each core playing area across the country, and a couple of teams from the bigger cities. Maybe we could call it the National Rugby Competition or something...

The Australian Rugby Championship. No confusion about what it exactly is, and promotes the idea of having an Australian Champion.

 

[Brumby Runner]

"Whatever happens we must still have some sort of international involvement between the reworked club comp and the Wallabies."

Why on earth would you shackle the game to that? The Boomers are currently ranked 4th in the world and the NBL is booming () but with only minimal and tokenistic international involvement. Even the A League which everyone dumps on gets average crowds slightly better than Super Rugby

We need a domestic comp that is a proper competition - not a glorified selection trial. Let go of the notion that there is something "special" about rugby because of its international involvement. thats a bit 1960s to be frank

I want a domestic comp to have primacy, but there is still a lot of gain from regular international competition, against say NZ, Islands and Argentina, but as a Pacific championship type of thing after the domestic comp is run and done.

In any case, I think we are waiting for 2031 before anything meaningful can happen on the Super Rugby front.

EDIT : and of course, the centralised model being pushed by RA, at least under McLennan was all about improving our players for Wallabies duty.

 

[Tomthumb]

the other states won't like it but perhaps a NSW and QLD comp (maybe with a Canberra club) but with Super Rugby / none Wallabies scattered throughout (in 'centralisation' approach to player development).

So Marley Pearce, while not in the Wallaby squad, may end up playing for Eastwood or Bond Uni for this comp which provides a higher level of comp for players and fans

Brett would love it

 

[Adam84]

No I said they helped us this year, not sure what will happen going forward.

Irrespective. Why must we make our own competition, surely we can expect an Australian third tier to be inclusive not exclusive.

So you’re saying, if WA can’t be involved then QPR v SS clubs shouldnt be allowed to play each other?
Despite WA clubs not been on the same level, and including them drastically escalating the costs to a prohibitive level?

 

[noscrumnolife]

So you’re saying, if WA can’t be involved then QPR v SS clubs shouldnt be allowed to play each other?
Despite WA clubs not been on the same level, and including them drastically escalating the costs to a prohibitive level?

The price of a bus from Canberra or return flights to Melbourne/Perth is surely not so significant so as to be entirely prohibitive to the running of the competition altogether. Presumably in the QLD/NSW comps teams are still flying Sydney-Brisbane as well. I think you are slightly overstating how much better QPR/SS is than First Grade elsewhere. There's a gap, for sure. But it wouldn't be a complete drubbing. And certainly nothing well-considered concentration of Force/Rebels/Brumbies players couldn't overcome.

 

[dru]

So you’re saying, if WA can’t be involved then QPR v SS clubs shouldnt be allowed to play each other?
Despite WA clubs not been on the same level, and including them drastically escalating the costs to a prohibitive level?

When you spread the non-Wallaby Force players into a WA club rep team (or two), and they play QPR clubs with non-Wallaby Reds players spread over 9 clubs - there would in deed be a disparity. Just not the way you are suggesting.

There is nothing wrong with SS and QPR crossing over and playing. Presuming it is not masquerading as a part of a new centralised pathways, not presented as a National third tier, and the non-NSW/Qld rugby fraternities are funded on a similar level - per capita or something.

 

[Adam84]

Concentrating the super rugby players into one or two local club teams within WA or VIC competitions does more damage to the local club competition then it does good.

 

[Adam84]

The price of a bus from Canberra or return flights to Melbourne/Perth is surely not so significant so as to be entirely prohibitive to the running of the competition altogether. Presumably in the QLD/NSW comps teams are still flying Sydney-Brisbane as well.

It was flagged in the NRC, they tried to make it FIFO on the day of the game.
However Perth travel in particular escalates cost due to the need to travel the day before, and stay the night after also depending on games time. You start flying half a dozen club teams back and forth across the Nullarbor each weekend with accomodation and incidentals for 40 odd players and suddenly the costs escalate.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

All of that is true but it's the cost of a national competition. As I said earlier, I'm OK with the first step being NSW and QLD teams playing each other as the start of a third tier, but also think it would be a retrograde step for the sport more generally if it were to only ever be that.

 

[dru]

Concentrating the super rugby players into one or two local club teams within WA or VIC competitions does more damage to the local club competition then it does good.

It's not what I said though. Creating rep teams at the end of the club season would be fine. Also costs aren't going to be a huge step from interfacing with the Cheetahs and at least it would be within an RA pathways system. Apparently.

I'd suggest that spreading the Red talent between two tiers will only go one way over time - and then the damage to local comp issue is germane.

Frankly to propose a SS v QPR system as an NRC replacement - and this within a redeveloped centralised pathway - seems pretty ludicrous. No semblance of national equality. Of course if you are not bothered by that, then we have a sort of weird shrink-to-greatness 2.0 occurring at club level with only NSW and Qld benefiting.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think we should continue the fine rugby tradition of making perfect the enemy of good.