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Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Stuff the stereotypes and the "norms". If Mr Roach is any good, regardless of his physical attributes, he will either redefine the role, or adapt to another role within Heavensgame.

Halfbacks are supposed to be stumpy little yapping runts. Joost VD Westhuizen (the bokke 1/2 back for about 90 tests) was 6'1" or 1.85m in the new money.
Halfbacks are not supposed to be 6'1".

JVDW redefined the role, and the "typical" physical template for a #9. No reason why young Mr Roach can not do likewise for #2.

Alternatively, just look at Gilbert B. He has been re-invented as a #15. Plenty of other players who have performed with distinction at higher levels in positions different from that which they had previously played all their rugby at.
 
Q

QuadeCooperFan

Guest
The general consensus seems to be that front rowers have to be fat.

Boys like Roach and Millar are lean, resulting in them being fitter than the usual front rower. This, coupled with the fact they can play above their weight, makes up for their 'lack of size' or whatever you want to call it.
 

Informer

Ward Prentice (10)
The general consensus seems to be that front rowers have to be fat.

Boys like Roach and Millar are lean, resulting in them being fitter than the usual front rower. This, coupled with the fact they can play above their weight, makes up for their 'lack of size' or whatever you want to call it.

True, except that when you get to super 15 and beyond they are all BIG, mean and fit; you only have to look at the evolution of players over the last few years to see the focus on size, as talent and commitment as seen as a given. The old saying that a good BIG bloke will take precedence over a good smaller bloke has never been more relevant in the modern game. I think Freier and Beau Robinson are good examples of players with the heart, talent and desire but not the size to succeed at the highest level.
 
G

groger

Guest
i am just going to put it out there.

Expect roach to change positions from 2 to 7 as a brumby. Big call but im prepared to make it.
Optimal size .. phil waugh like
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Who knows - you could be right. They changed TPN from a schools 6/8 to a hooker; so they could do something similar in reverse. But with Hooper and Colby Fainga'a there and Salvi back in town, and having found out at Bath that he should play only at 7, I don't see a place for Roach as a contract player for quite a few years as a 7. That can change with injuries of course.

It's more important for him to play Colts and then Grade - if needs be at 7 if he wants to give it a go; and then he will find out a few things about himself and also how his play needs tweaking. At the same time Super coaches can get to look at his strengths on a more mature level of rugby and his weaknesses also.

But some Super coaches have a different agenda, especially at the Brumbies. Maybe he likes the idea that, notwithstanding that there are already 3 guys who have played Super rugby at 7 already, they probably won't call in a senior player if there are two injuries in the position, but use him on the bench instead.

For those who don't know: Friend didn't have a senior 7 in his stable when George Smith was injured as he was warehousing two 18 y.o.s instead.


13. Mali Hingano

Lot's of Super teams are talking to the lad:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/4801-Melbourne-Rebels-2011?p=178487#post178487
 

observer

Tom Lawton (22)
I've been campaigning on rugby forums against the use 17 y.o. and 18 y.o. young players in Super rugby even whilst KB (Kurtley Beale) was still at school knowing how desperate the Tahs were for a permanent flyhalf.

Link agrees with you. See http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/link-fine-with-the-longer-comp-20100918-15h32.html

He said if Australian sides were to return to Super rugby success, all five and the ARU would have to place heavier focus on development.

''There needs to be a great importance on the academy and having blokes nearby who are ready to go, not just kids out of of school without runs on the board out against guys who are internationals,'' McKenzie said. ''Because when you're out there, the Bulls don't take it any easier on an 18-year-old school kid than they do James Horwill.
 

observer

Tom Lawton (22)
The bench players from the first two domestic internationals are set to be starters against a Samoan Schools selection at Apia Park on Tuesday. Makes sense.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Link agrees with you. See http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/link-fine-with-the-longer-comp-20100918-15h32.html

''There needs to be a great importance on the academy and having blokes nearby who are ready to go, not just kids out of of school without runs on the board out against guys who are internationals,'' McKenzie said. ''Because when you're out there, the Bulls don't take it any easier on an 18-year-old school kid than they do James Horwill.

Thanks for posting that.


Link is almost always sensible in what he says and what he does, yet it was he that started KB (Kurtley Beale) on the high veld in his first game as a senior player not long after he turned 18 - and against large professional players.


His comments on the CBA were interesting as it's the first time I have seen anything from any official from the ARU or a Super team on the matter. The agreement with RUPA seemingly expired in 2008 yet Rupert Guinness and other journalists were mentioning in 2010 that the limit for contracted players in 2011 was to be limited to 30.


What Link is saying, in effect, is that although the CBA expired, the terms of it are still be adhered to. This means that 33 limit has not changed, nor has the requirement to have a minimum of 3 rookies as part of the 33, and a maximum of 5. So much for journos.


Last I looked some time ago the Tahs did not have 3 rookies but I am not interested enough at the minute to check their roster - not that the roster would be gospel.


There is still no official information on Rothchild's mail which indicates that there will be constraints on the employment of school leavers from now on. It may be bunk as some of my mail has been over the years.


If there is some way to force Oz Super coaches to use professional academy players who are ready to go, to use Link's words, the use of school leavers problem could be fixed ipso facto.


Perhaps it will be as simple as requiring contracts of professional academy players to be approved by the ARU's HPU General Manager, David Nucifora. For example he could approve a school leaver as a fullback but not as a prop.


Alternatively, Super teams could have as many pro academy contracts as they wanted to but only certain approved players would be allowed to play during the year. This would enable Super teams to bring on a young bloke gradually, yet give him some grocery money.


As part of this academy watchdog role Nucifora should ensure that every position is covered by a senior player in the contracted squad or pro academy. If there is an injury or two he should make sure that a Super team is recruiting a senior player as a back stop.


I don't think this is as hard as it may sound. Some senior players in club footie, who would likely be first cabs off the rank for such an emergency, may not be able to drop everything and move cities, but there would be others who would jump at the chance to be first back up.


Certainly, the Brumbies would have had no trouble getting a good senior 7 from the Sydney comp when Smith was hurt, in such a scenario, though there should have been a senior 7 in the group to start with. The senior newcomer may not have been as good a player as Michael Hooper or Colby Fainga'a, but he would have been more suitable for use against seasoned professionals.


There are other ifs and buts as I think as I type but this post is long enough already.
 
R

Rothschild

Guest
Thanks for posting that.


There is still no official information on Rothchild's mail which indicates that there will be constraints on the employment of school leavers from now on. It may be bunk as some of my mail has been over the years.

Not so much constraints Lee. If the Super clubs wish to sign youngsters they can it's just that the ARU won't necessarily sign off on them hence no ARU financial support for that particular player until such a time as the ARU believes they are ready to step up. We have already seen a sign of it this year with so little number of school leavers being signed to academy deals compared to years gone by. From what I have seen there is barely a fraction signed this year as compared to last year at the same time.
 
N

Nanai

Guest
On the S15 contracts yield... I've heard that Stuart Goodman was picked up by the Tahs Academy?
I'd picked Tom Connor to get a look in ahead of Goodman early in the season - so I would be surprised if this is the case.
The Stu Dunbar to Brumbies rumour I noted on the other thread also surprises me, so if anyone could substantiate these, I'd appreciate it. My sources are questionable...
 

observer

Tom Lawton (22)
On the S15 contracts yield... I've heard that Stuart Goodman was picked up by the Tahs Academy?
I'd picked Tom Connor to get a look in ahead of Goodman early in the season - so I would be surprised if this is the case.
The Stu Dunbar to Brumbies rumour I noted on the other thread also surprises me, so if anyone could substantiate these, I'd appreciate it. My sources are questionable...

This is what I've heard. Seage is in the Tah's Academy by virtue of his 7's contract. Others to be offered Jnr Tahs are Apo and Steve Cummins. I agree with Rothschild: It's not a revolving door this year with school leavers.

I wouldn't be surprised with Dunbar with the Brumbies. He is from Wagga so it all fits. I'm astounded that he wasn't selected in Aussie Schools, Aussie A or Presidents. Good luck to him he deserves the opportunity.
 
N

NorthernSon

Guest
On the S15 contracts yield... I've heard that Stuart Goodman was picked up by the Tahs Academy?
I'd picked Tom Connor to get a look in ahead of Goodman early in the season - so I would be surprised if this is the case.
The Stu Dunbar to Brumbies rumour I noted on the other thread also surprises me, so if anyone could substantiate these, I'd appreciate it. My sources are questionable...

Hmm, The mail on Goodman being picked up on a non paying contract with the Tah's doesnt surprise me but I must say the efforts of Boyd Killingworth at 7 for Aus Schoolboys was inspiring and he will continue to develop into a very physical and mobile open side.
Im afraid the Tom Connor bubble burst after the GPS trials in the physical contests, same thing happenned in 2009.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Let's not get too polarised about this player or that getting an academy contract. 4 out of 5 of them, and probably more, will be signing for the amateur academies. Quite a few lads won't be interested in that and when they turn an offer down you don't hear about it.

Not to the point but some fellows a couple of years out of school, and older, aren't even interested in lowly paid professional academy contracts and trust themselves to get Super contracts from playing grade.

School leavers may be off on a gap year, or don't want to get distracted from the 1st year at Uni. Some may have good job or an apprenticeship lined up already and are willing to go through the Colts system as a pathway as countless others have done.

It will do no harm to the young fellows if they do sign up for the amateur academies and play Colts on Saturday anyway, but there are other things in life such as being able to pay off a car and having the money to take girls out.


Rothschild

Thanks for the clarification. Actually you clarified it in your original post and I clouded things over.

There's is still one component I don't like and that is in this sentence of your original post pertaining to the signing of school leavers: The ARU apparently are planning a draft type system where they will determine what players are recruited, when the players get recruited and where the players go.

I don't think it is any business of the ARU to direct where a school leaver goes, but perhaps the meaning of it is that they want to encourage lads to stay in their home city for a year of two and not be prey to recruiters from parts far away arriving on the doorstep, like rats with gold teeth.

Can't say I like the idea of a draft for youngsters on the face of it; but perhaps we should wait until there is some clarification before I get my knickers in a knot.
 
R

Rothschild

Guest
Rothschild

There's is still one component I don't like and that is in this sentence of your original post pertaining to the signing of school leavers: The ARU apparently are planning a draft type system where they will determine what players are recruited, when the players get recruited and where the players go.

I don't think it is any business of the ARU to direct where a school leaver goes, but perhaps the meaning of it is that they want to encourage lads to stay in their home city for a year of two and not be prey to recruiters from parts far away arriving on the doorstep, like rats with gold teeth.

Can't say I like the idea of a draft for youngsters on the face of it; but perhaps we should wait until there is some clarification before I get my knickers in a knot.

I guess they are simply attempting tohave the distribution of emerging talent even across the playing field, instead of one or two franchises who have all the youth hoarding them. Whie there are certainly some facets that may be unfair to both the players and the teams, I can see where it would mean stronger and increased depth in those s15 teams where development of juniors is below that of NSW and Qld who when all is said and dome have far too much talent from which to choose and hoard them just to prevent other teams having them. Really, how many wingers/fullbacks does Qld need in their academt waiting in line for a chance to shine on the stage.
 
N

Nanai

Guest
The biggest issue is boosting the value of club contracts. Colts at this stage need to pay for their places at clubs, rookie mungos get paid.
 
N

no_name12

Guest
have we heared anything about over seas clubs trying to pick off anybody?
 

Iluvmyfooty

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Has anyone heard how the first game went yesterday in Samoa?

Also, and a little of a tangent, can anyone give me the results of the Junior State rep games that were played last weekend against the ACT? A small match report would also be good
 
R

Rothschild

Guest
Has anyone heard how the first game went yesterday in Samoa?..

Has only just finished - Tues afternoon in Samoa is Wednesday here. 20 - 7 to oZ. Apparently a very tough game in very humid conditions against a Samoan U20 side - not a schoolboy selection as programmed.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLBOYS WIN TOUR OPENER IN SAMOA

The Australian Schoolboys have made a bright start to their five-match international Rugby tour with a 20-7 victory over a Samoan Schools selection at Apia Park in Samoa on Tuesday (Wednesday AEST).

The Pat Langtry-coached Australians ran in three tries to one in hot and humid conditions which saw both side’s fitness tested late in the match.

The Australian Schoolboys took the early lead through a penalty to Keebra Park High flyhalf Dion Taumata in the fifth minute before increasing their advantage to 10-nil through a converted try to Ipswich Grammar School prop Maile Ngauamo at the 18 minute mark.

A wily Samoan counter attack saw the home side score just before halftime to trail 10-7 at the break.

Australia used the downtime to regroup and piled on two tries in 10 minutes through Brisbane State High School pair Chris Feauai-Sautia and Walter Petaia to seal the win.

The victory continues the Australian Schoolboys unbeaten run to three matches this year, after toppling Fiji Schools 40-0 in the Bledisloe Cup curtain-raiser in Sydney earlier this month following a 52-10 victory over Samoan Schools the same week.

The first of three Tests on tour will be against Samoan Schools also at Apia Park on Friday.

From Samoa, the Australian Schoolboys will head to New Zealand where they’ll play the Waikato Harlequins U19 (29 Sept), a Test against Tongan Schools (2 Oct) and will round out the tour with a Test against New Zealand Schools on 6 October in Otago.

AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLS 20 (Maile Ngauamo, Chris Feauai-Sautia, Walter Petaia tries; Dion Taumata pen, con) bt
SAMOAN SCHOOLS SELECTION 7 (Kautzukiko Tautai try; Utu Poliko conversion) at Apia Park, Samoa

Team:

1
Jed
GILLESPIE
The Kings School
NSW
2
Maile
NGAUAMO
Ipswich Grammar School
QLD
3
Philip
KITE
St Josephs College Nudgee
QLD
4
Sam
REISER
St Joseph’s Gregory Terrace
QLD
5
Jed
HOLLOWAY
Waverley College
NSW
6
Curtis
BROWNING
Brisbane State High School
QLD
7
Tom
CONNOR
The Kings School
NSW
8
Michael
WELLS
St Ignatius College
NSW
9
Tim
DUCHESNE
Knox Grammar School
NSW
10
Dion
TAUMATA
Keebra Park High School
QLD
11
Walter
PETAIA
Brisbane State High School
QLD
12
Apolosi
LATUNIPULU
Newington College
NSW
13
Malietoa
HINGANO
St Augustine's College
NSW
14
Lindsay
CROOK
The Southport School
QLD
15
Luke
KEARY
Oakhill College
NSW
16
Gary
NEUGEBAUER
Hale School
WA
17
Hugh
ROACH
Newington College
NSW
18
Guy
MILLAR
The Kings School
NSW
19
Tom
CUSACK
Marist College Canberra
ACT
20
Boyd
KILLINGWORTH
The Kings School
NSW
21
Tim
DONLAN
St Ignatius' College
NSW
22
Ed
WYLIE
The Kings School
NSW
23
Chris
FEAUAI-SAUTIA
Brisbane State High School
QLD
24
Lewis
HOLLAND
St Edmund’s College
ACT
25
Sioeli-Pulu
LUANI
Newington College
NSW
26
Steve
CUMMINS (c)
The Hills Sports High School
NSW


FIXTURES:
Friday 24 Sep
Australian Schoolboys Test v Samoan Schools – Apia Park – 3.30 pm
Wednesday 29 Sep
Australian Schoolboys v Waikato Harlequins Under 19 – St Pauls Collegiate, Hamilton – 2pm
Saturday 2 Oct
Australian Schoolboys Test v Tongan Schools – Sacred Heart College, Auckland – 2.30 pm
Wednesday 6 Oct
Australian Schoolboys Test v New Zealand Schools - Littlebourne, Otago BHS - 11.45am
 
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