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Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2012

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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Unfortunately is is a fact of any collision type game that the participants are all so close to a season/career ending injury at every collision.

Wrap in cotton wool, and the player does not get that match hardened toughness needed for test matches. The player is exposed to losing their place to someone who is match hardened.

Do not wrap in cotton wool, and you run the risk of receiving one of the aforseaid injuries.

Tough call.

Back to more mundane things, IIRC the final touring squad for the Schoolboys is due to be announced on 14 August. (next Tuesday). Performances over the weekend may be important for the various school competition games, but I suspect the selectors will be more acutely studying the injury lists following the weekend.

It would be a brave punter to offer up their final Aust Schoolboy touring party list before the listing of the various ailments from weekend games is published.
 

Fairpoint

Stan Wickham (3)
Speaking with a few of his school team mates and parents, Orr will be fine if reselected for tour, i was hearing estimates of a week or less till he can start training with it again.

PS. Also have heard along the grape vine, Fakaseiola the reserve 8 has sustained an injury to his leg, can anyone expand? he was awesome out at the champs and in the game v Tonga.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Yep - its oh so easy to be dispassionate about someone else's kid, just a little bit harder when it is one of your own.


So true! The devastation that is etched in their faces is a very sobering reality check of the disappointments that occur in rugby; even at the schoolboy level!

Admittedly I am indifferent where Orr is concerned (but then again I have always been a 'backs' follower) and those in the role of selecting had a different opinion to mine and that is what counts!

I do hope the lad makes a speedy recovery and is given every opportunity to qualify for selection next week! I also feel for the parents; as they too share in the pain! Ultimatley all parents have a vested interested in their child's success (i.e. the endless weekends and Tuesday and Thursday nights at training plus the rest). Its quite an investment TBH.

BTW what is the prognosis for Orr? Does he have a chance of recovering?
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Just seen the above post Re Orr. Good new!

Now for F's sake wrap that lad up in some 'cotton wool' till he get on a plane!

:D :D :D
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Speaking with a few of his school team mates and parents, Orr will be fine if reselected for tour, i was hearing estimates of a week or less till he can start training with it again.
PS. Also have heard along the grape vine, Fakaseiola the reserve 8 has sustained an injury to his leg, can anyone expand? he was awesome out at the champs and in the game v Tonga.

That's good news about Orr. I thought he was the best big prop v.Tonga (LHP Pleash is small and played like a backrower which I'm guessing he has been) - but that is not saying a lot. Most of the big props wanted to play like backrowers too, as did both 2nd rowers who locked with Rorke during the game.

I hope the news on Fakaosiea is just as good but he is 91 kgs and if he can't tour I hope they find a big fellow to play 6 or 8. This is one reason I wanted Scwhager, who weighs another 15 kgs, in the squad, but he is crocked.

The 3 backrowers are very good and are no smaller than the 2011 lads, Miller, Baldwin and McMahon, who, after all, were part of the winning team against NZ last year, but I wish we had a big backrower to make up for the two stringbean locks who partnered Rorke at St. Marys.
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Taipan168

Jim Clark (26)
Speaking with a few of his school team mates and parents, Orr will be fine if reselected for tour, i was hearing estimates of a week or less till he can start training with it again.

PS. Also have heard along the grape vine, Fakaseiola the reserve 8 has sustained an injury to his leg, can anyone expand? he was awesome out at the champs and in the game v Tonga.
Fakasoleia tore ligaments in his ankle and is currently in a moon boot, will miss a few weeks.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
That's not good but the Oz Schools guys would probably know his condition and prognosis already, since he is an incumbent with the Oz test 23.

Since they don't play their first tour game until 22 September they will probably judge how he will be about 2 weeks before that. If his injury is not too bad he could be named - and they will have standby players nominated anyway that can slot in if needs be.

The same for Orr, or anybody else injured in the next few weeks.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Ankle ligament injuries are absolutely rife at the moment! Especially syndesmosis injuries (which take a minimum of 8 weeks to properly heal).

The other adverse affect with ankle injuries is the inability to do engage in any alternate training to try and maintain some semblance of fitness. Swimming is out, even with the isolation of the legs, as their is still a tendency to want to plantar flex while in the pool!

I was actually speaking to a well known speed and agility coach/sport scientist who informed that there has been a marked increase in soft tissue injuries of the upper ankle lately across all football codes (i.e. syndesmosis tears). His theory is that not enough attention is being given to this area by strength and conditioning coaches!
 

Brian Westlake

Arch Winning (36)
Ankle ligament injuries are absolutely rife at the moment! Especially syndesmosis injuries (which take a minimum of 8 weeks to properly heal).

The other adverse affect with ankle injuries is the inability to do engage in any alternate training to try and maintain some semblance of fitness. Swimming is out, even with the isolation of the legs, as their is still a tendency to want to plantar flex while in the pool!

I was actually speaking to a well known speed and agility coach/sport scientist who informed that there has been a marked increase in soft tissue injuries of the upper ankle lately across all football codes (i.e. syndesmosis tears). His theory is that not enough attention is being given to this area by strength and conditioning coaches!
Last year it was Compartment syndrome with Ben Whitaker coming out in news letters saying to cease the use of Creatine as it excerbates the condition markedly. Our boys are tring to get too big, too quick. I was having a beer with Arthur McGill and he said that theSchoolboys now are bigger than the pack he played with in the 70's And these guys were adults!
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
That's interesting about the Creatine and disturbing also.

Not to the point: I'm no S&C expert but one can see a case where the major muscles are exercised to excess but the bits and pieces can't be changed much. They may even become prone to damage by the increased work they have to do because of the augmentation of other parts.
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an observer

Herbert Moran (7)
AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLS SQUAD TO TOUR FIJI & NZ 2012
First Surname Team School
Jack Dempsey NSW St Ignatius' College
Lolo Fakaosilea QLD Brisbane Boys' College
Andrew Ferris NSW The Kings School
Lolakai Foketi NSW The Kings School
Michael Gunn QLD Anglican Church Grammar School
Gareth Kalell QLD Brisbane Boys' College
Siotame Kavapalu VIC Rowville Secondary College
Andrew Kellaway NSW The Scots College
Adam Korczyk QLD Brisbane State High
Jake McIntyre NSW Alstoneville High School
Tepai Meoroa NSW Newington College
Neori Nadruku ACT St Edmunds College
Matthew Philip NSW St Augustine's College
Jonah Placid QLD Toowoomba Grammar School
Aaron Pleash QLD Ipswich Grammar School
John Porch NSW Farar Memorial AHS
Angus Pulver NSW Shore School
Tomas Robertson NSW St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill
Andrew Robinson ACT St Mary Mackillop College
Harry Rorke NSW St Ignatius' College
Matt Sandell NSW St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill
Moli Sooaemalelagi VIC Roxburgh Park Secondary College
Tom Staniforth ACT Canberra Grammar School
Jim Stewart NSW The Scots College
Jack Tuttle QLD St Jospeh's Nudgee College
Mitchell Whiteley NSW St Ignatius' College
Brad Wilkin QLD Iona College
Tom Wilson NSW Barker College
Paul Geddes Manager Central Coast Grammar School
Stephen Phillpotts Coach Brisbane Boys' College
John Rownes Ass Manager Knox Grammar School
Timothy Rapp Ass Coach Newington College
Michael McLean Doctor
Will Maher Physio
Andy Clark Technical Ass
Darren Clunn S&C
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
In Schoolboys vs Tonga, but not for tour:
J Cornelson, BGS
D Horwitz, Scots
H Jones, Kings
C Orr, Trinity

Not in Schoolboys vs Tonga
G Kalell, BBC
A Korczyk, BSHS (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Moeroa, New
J Porch, Farrar (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Robertson, Joeys (From Aust A vs Tonga)
M Sandell, Joeys
T Staniforth, Canberra Grammar
J Tuttle, Nudgee (From Aust A vs Tonga)
B Wilkin, Iona
 

Lomu

Bob McCowan (2)
In Schoolboys vs Tonga, but not for tour:
J Cornelson, BGS
D Horwitz, Scots
H Jones, Kings
C Orr, Trinity

Not in Schoolboys vs Tonga
G Kalell, BBC
A Korczyk, BSHS (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Moeroa, New
J Porch, Farrar (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Robertson, Joeys (From Aust A vs Tonga)
M Sandell, Joeys
T Staniforth, Canberra Grammar
J Tuttle, Nudgee (From Aust A vs Tonga)
B Wilkin, Iona

Are the omissions due to injury or bad form or lack of opportunities?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
That's interesting about the Creatine and disturbing also.

Not to the point: I'm no S&C expert but one can see a case where the major muscles are exercised to excess but the bits and pieces can't be changed much. They may even become prone to damage by the increased work they have to do because of the augmentation of other parts.
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I was actually wondering what conditioning you can do to avoid a syndesmosis injury.
To my observation syndesmosis injuries are usually just bad luck (maybe all in juries are!) in that they usually involve the tackled player being brought down at least partly from behind and the tackler falling on top of his legs so that his ankle is "straightened out" (I assume its a hyperextension?) - at least thats when Ive been able to recall the incident and relate it to the diagnosis.
For a little while i've been speculating as to the role played by modern boots in these type of injuries - not scientific or even logical basis - I just wonder.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
In Schoolboys vs Tonga, but not for tour:
J Cornelson, BGS
D Horwitz, Scots
H Jones, Kings
C Orr, Trinity

Not in Schoolboys vs Tonga
G Kalell, BBC
A Korczyk, BSHS (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Moeroa, New
J Porch, Farrar (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Robertson, Joeys (From Aust A vs Tonga)
M Sandell, Joeys
T Staniforth, Canberra Grammar
J Tuttle, Nudgee (From Aust A vs Tonga)
B Wilkin, Iona
A couple of surprises in the omissions, based on my limited viewings.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
The Selectors have had to make some tough decisions.

Congratulations and commiserations as appropriate.

“It is not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood and strives valiantly… Who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at least knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with the cold and timid souls who have never known neither victory nor defeat.”
- Theodore Roosevelt

The Selection Bias thread is now open as a venting platform to discuss the blind, ignorant, ARU Gold Squad influenced, GPS favouring, Politically motivated, League hating Selectors.

Looking forward to hearing reports of the back to back victories over the Little Darkness.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The Selection Bias thread is now open as a venting platform to discuss the blind, ignorant, ARU Gold Squad influenced, GPS favouring, Politically motivated, League hating Selectors.

Looking forward to hearing reports of the back to back victories over the Little Darkness.
Moerea has league background doesnt he?
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
In Schoolboys vs Tonga, but not for tour:
J Cornelson, BGS
D Horwitz, Scots
H Jones, Kings
C Orr, Trinity

Not in Schoolboys vs Tonga
G Kalell, BBC
A Korczyk, BSHS (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Moeroa, New
J Porch, Farrar (From Aust A vs Tonga)
T Robertson, Joeys (From Aust A vs Tonga)
M Sandell, Joeys
T Staniforth, Canberra Grammar
J Tuttle, Nudgee (From Aust A vs Tonga)
B Wilkin, Iona

Thanks for that HJ.

The omission of 16 y.o. Harry Jones (a Ben Tune type of player at that age) is inexplicable unless he is injured. Some lads make themselves unavailable for this tour because of the HSC, but Jones will do that next year. His replacement, Kalell, was hardly stellar in the Oz Schools comp but he must be in form for his school.

The omission of flyhalf Horwitz is puzzling also since Greene was not added. It is hard to work out who will be the backup for McIntyre - and he is hardly a specialist 10 anyway. Does Tuttle play there sometimes for NC?

I thought that 90kgs lock Cornelson could be replaced as he is a stringbean, though Korczyk is not exactly a big bopper either. Big engine though.

Orr was unlucky to be omitted unless they thought his hand injury would not heal in good time. A couple of the other big Oz props were retained on no good evidence, but it's good to see that Robertson is rebounding after an apparent downer. The Joeys LHP was selected as THP by GPS, NSW IIs and Oz A, and all from their lacking quality at THP than from his wanting ability at LHP. He made such a good fist of it that his value as an Oz Schools touring prop became evident. His next challenge will be to start at THP in a 'test'.

The selection of his Joeys' THP team mate, Yr, 11 lad Sandell, is a bit of a surprise (this year) as he is not big for the position, but the Joeys scrum has performed well in 2012, and if needs be Sandell can play in the backrow - or even the 2nd row at a stretch. The only Joeys' front rower missing is 2. Carolan. Incumbent hooker, Wilson, is one of the best players in the Oz Schools team, but I thought Carolan was a smokey to tour, such was his form of late.

I reckoned that big bopper 12. Moeroa would get his chance next year, but he is in top school form and will be a good backup for Stewart. I agree with the addition of 15. Porch to the squad. He is very quick and is a good footie player; no doubt he can play on the wing as well.

I am glad that ACT lock Staniforth is healthy enough now to be picked as he has missed all the rep rugby this year. He will probably partner Rorke in the 2nd row if he gets match fit because they need a bit of starch there.

It is well that Tuttle and Wilkin are in the team. NSW schools watchers will know little about these players if they missed the Oz U/16 Championships in Sydney last year: the Queensland lads were the stars of the tournament.

Tuttle, the Oz A captain, had a quiet Oz Opens tournament week recently, but there is nothing untoward in that: so did W.Genia and Q.Cooper back in the day. Wilkin missed the tournament through injury but will probably contend now with Gunn for the 7 spot in test matches - and Gunn with Dempsey at 6.

In summary: in the backs, the absence of H. Jones and the apparent lack of a flyhalf backup are negatives. In the forwards Staniforth will improve the 2nd row and Robertson the front row. Wilkin provides cover for Gunn, or it could be the other way around.

Apart from that they still lack a big 6 or 8 and a specialist class winger.

Whatever one thinks about Oz Schools selections generally, it is refreshing that in 2011 and 2012 the selectors have been more willing to look at changes to the team after their first match than they have been in the past. After the games against England in 2011 they invited Oz Schools and A players to a camp, then changed their main side afterwards to good effect. This year, a winter touring year, they will have a 'touring camp' and consider test team changes on the go.
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