Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2015

[The sage]

Agreed!

 

[pablo]

@the sage apparently it does exist, and from the look of it extends to the 20s programs as one of 2014 quota players played for Aus 20s this year, one for Samoa 20s this year, and also one from the 2013 inductees into the quota hall of fame has played both Samoa 20s and Aus 20s in the past 2 years.....

Maybe it is just a way of some validating that their programs aren't as good as they think and producing walk up starts like the good ol' days....ye ha!

 

[Derick Slater]

Last years effort wasnt't bad? Um ok.
And what makes a good captain?
You will have to ask the chairman on this one. As for the rest Derick, you are just repeating yourself

How old are you? I'm seriously wondering how you can honestly think that just because a team doesn't place first, then a captain shouldn't be selected from there.

QLD schoolboy rugby had a great year in 2014.

1) QLD 1 and 2 finished third and fourth - not THAT bad considering there are 8 teams playing.
2) QLD had arguably the best schoolboy team - Churchie.
2) 9 players were selected in the Aus schools team
3) Harley Fox selected as captain.
4) Connor Moroney given Golden Boot as best Australian schools player.

Additionally, 9 players went on to play Reds U20 with 1 - who didn't even play Aus schools - playing Aus U20s. I'm not saying that Goddard or McGregor aren't options for captaincy, I'm just saying that Hewat is the most experienced AS a captain and nationals player, so would likely be the best fit.

Oh, and your little rant about how experience doesn't mean anything is bullshit. This is schoolboy rugby, the most experienced are generally the best.

 

[Rugby Mum]

And no, it hasn't been explained to me. It is just another qlder talking up, what was last year, a poor year for qld school rugby. Should this be reflected with the honour of captaincy to a losing team captain? This may change in a few weeks time. And if you feel longevity should be rewarded with captaincy, That means Watmough should be Australian rl captain. Yep. that works

Remembering also that coaches tend to go with who they know better, and coming from QLD called players in from QLD. All one has to do is watch the replays of the games the AS played. We tend to think those we see often are the best, developing a one eyed perspective.
A second rower from QLD called in when NSW 1 and 2 s had some very talented options in Beau Patterson and Toby Rudolf. Interesting to see if the coaches from NSW stick with what they know or call in the best man for the job, regardless of where they come from.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Okay so that's what this is about. You just don't like Queenslanders. Your reference to Reece Hewat as just "the kid" shows that you really don't follow qld schools rugby at all. Last year wasn't a bad year at all, Qld may have come third behind nsw but many of the qld players selected in Australian schools were some of the best players there were. I believe there are more qld schoolboys from last year currently playing in Australia U20.

Explain how any other player would make a better captain.

Not sure if you take an interest in rugby beyond school.
Im tempted to say "the prosecution rests" based on the bolded bit but instead I'll just ask whether you are aware of this year's U20 performance? And whether, if you are, you can see a pattern here?

 

[Rugby Mum]

IS rugby is not selective. You either follow it or you don't.

Have eagerly followed the Australian Under 20 s, waking up at ungodly hours to catch up on results. This years Under 20 s have played extremely well, and yes performed very well. But they were the year before Aust School Boys 2013. (Unless I am mistaken) Last years Aust Schools are yet to be seen in the under 20 s program as I don't believe this years program has commenced.

 

[OU812]

How old are you? I'm seriously wondering how you can honestly think that just because a team doesn't place first, then a captain shouldn't be selected from there.

QLD schoolboy rugby had a great year in 2014.

1) QLD 1 and 2 finished third and fourth - not THAT bad considering there are 8 teams playing.
2) QLD had arguably the best schoolboy team - Churchie.
2) 9 players were selected in the Aus schools team
3) Harley Fox selected as captain.
4) Connor Moroney given Golden Boot as best Australian schools player.

Additionally, 9 players went on to play Reds U20 with 1 - who didn't even play Aus schools - playing Aus U20s. I'm not saying that Goddard or McGregor aren't options for captaincy, I'm just saying that Hewat is the most experienced AS a captain and nationals player, so would likely be the best fit.

Oh, and your little rant about how experience doesn't mean anything is bullshit. This is schoolboy rugby, the most experienced are generally the best.

1) 3rd & 4th is ordinary for any QLD or NSW team

2) I would argue that Scots forward pack would have dominated the Churchie's pack comfortably nullifying Churchie's red hot back line

3) Even a lot of Qlders are still scratching our heads at his selection let alone the captaincy

4) totally agree with Moroney receiving the honours

 

[Brian Westlake]

How old are you? I'm seriously wondering how you can honestly think that just because a team doesn't place first, then a captain shouldn't be selected from there.

QLD schoolboy rugby had a great year in 2014.

1) QLD 1 and 2 finished third and fourth - not THAT bad considering there are 8 teams playing.
2) QLD had arguably the best schoolboy team - Churchie.
2) 9 players were selected in the Aus schools team
3) Harley Fox selected as captain.
4) Connor Moroney given Golden Boot as best Australian schools player.

Additionally, 9 players went on to play Reds U20 with 1 - who didn't even play Aus schools - playing Aus U20s. I'm not saying that Goddard or McGregor aren't options for captaincy, I'm just saying that Hewat is the most experienced AS a captain and nationals player, so would likely be the best fit.

Oh, and your little rant about how experience doesn't mean anything is bullshit. This is schoolboy rugby, the most experienced are generally the best.

Old enough to know better than to continue this.. But Hey, as sit in my Hotel room in brisvegas looking out at the banjo school in southbank, I figure, why not?
1. As you would have read already, positions 3 and 4 mean that you have comprehensively lost Derick. The teams behind you are CS, Vic, ACT and WA. That means that they werenot very good

2. Says who? You? If Anglican Church Grammar were the best in qld, great. Did they go on an all conquering tour ala Hannibal that we all missed out on?

2 (again, I figured I would work to your way of counting up here... Novel, to say the least, but don't think you will get it to catch on). Yes. This is what the debate is about. Due to the last two years qld has been beaten into 3rd and 4th. And originally there were only 6 qlders picked but your heir apparent was not in those original 6? I am glad he made the tour.

3. (Not to be confused with another 2). I will defer to @OU812 for that response.

4. Agreed with that.

I am in agreeance that I don't like qld, yes. I also don't like Brussel sprouts, Caramel Lattes and TV renovation shows. The point being?

 

[Wristman]

Old enough to know better than to continue this.. But Hey, as sit in my Hotel room in brisvegas looking out at the banjo school in southbank, I figure, why not?
1. As you would have read already, positions 3 and 4 mean that you have comprehensively lost Derick. The teams behind you are CS, Vic, ACT and WA. That means that they werenot very good

2. Says who? You? If Anglican Church Grammar were the best in qld, great. Did they go on an all conquering tour ala Hannibal that we all missed out on?

2 (again, I figured I would work to your way of counting up here. Novel, to say the least, but don't think you will get it to catch on). Yes. This is what the debate is about. Due to the last two years qld has been beaten into 3rd and 4th. And originally there were only 6 qlders picked but your heir apparent was not in those original 6? I am glad he made the tour.

3. (Not to be confused with another 2). I will defer to @OU812 for that response.

4. Agreed with that.

I am in agreeance that I don't like qld, yes. I also don't like Brussel sprouts, Caramel Lattes and TV renovation shows. The point being?

Interesting debate.
I followed the Australian schools team and selection closely last year and blind Freddy could have seen that the Queensland selectors favoured Queensland boys.
There was a favourable skew to Queenslanders in the original squad particularly given that NSW's second team beat Queenslands first team.
This was compounded further by 3 spots being left open all of which the selectors used to slide in other Queensland boys.
It's a shame when a parochial state of Origin mentality comes in to play and the team is not as strong as it could be.
The inter state championships are there to see the relative strength of the State teams. They didn't appear to be used by Queensland selectors to reflect this in their choices.
They gave Qld boys the benefit of the doubt if they were injured or performed badly on the day and penalised boys from other States if they didn't shine.
There were some strange omissions, the most glaring of which was Guy Porter from NSW I who had an outstanding tournament in the winning side (as was written up in a review on this website) and to all watching was one of the best in tournament...yet he couldn't find a place in the squad.
I hope the same doesn't happen this year.
If Queensland put up a better show and triumph at the State championships then a Qld skew would be most justified. If they don't can we please have a more balanced approach and send the best team rather than the boys who the Qld selectors know and love locally.
If a State skewed selection panel can't find it in themselves to do this then we should consider a more balanced approach with the selectors

 

[TOCC]

Brian is earning himself a solid reputation for his anti-QLD rants...


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[Brainstrust]

It's been explained to you many times in this forum. Neither McGregor or Goddard come close to Hewat in terms of experience. The fact that QLD came third last year is irrelevant. Loss builds character, and the selectors can clearly see this as Harley Fox was chosen as captain last year as a QLD player. Is there anyone else that has been playing national champs since they were 15?

That's a strange call on McGregor re experience. I've done some asking around and this is the status of his experience. He played 2 years in the NSW U16's and captained the side in 2013. This is his 2nd year at the Nationals , in 2014 he was vice-captain of NSW 2 as a yr11 student, and this year he is captain of rugby at Riverview. I'm not debating the merits of Hewat or any other boy for that matter, but to suggest that he is head and shoulders more experienced than anyone else just isn't right. Im sure that the selectors and coaches will have a lot of boys that they can choose from.


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[The sage]

The debate is more than interesting after your comment. Maybe the selectors did favour Queensland, maybe they didn't. Maybe they were looking at combinations maybe they weren't. Two things for sure: 1) This type of "blame analysis" is probably not productive! and 2) They won't be selectors long if they don't produce results.

As far as your comments go:
*Yes NSW 2 beat Qld 1, but it was hardly convincing by the score; two points in it and Qld 1 was 3 tries to 2. COM'ON, if that was your son and he lost by 2 points, you wouldn't be thrashing him all around the paddock! Would Ya?
*NSW 1 on paper appeared to be the best team. The interstate competition SHOULD BE the main barometer for selection in almost all occasions.
*One of the three spots was Reece Hewat
* Queensland does not have a mortgage on being parochial, NSW has also had it's turn at this on more than one occasion!
and
*lastly blind Freddie CAN'T see! He's blind!

On the other side of the coin, I think Gavin Luka, Moroney & Fox acquitted themselves well in the NZ match.

I also hope that (the bias) does not happen, but I and we cannot control that, only the selectors and coaches can. Merit and combinations is the best method. To give you an indication some of this (bias) has already happening with the QLD GPS teams. IGS and TSS had a very high number of players in the trials but not many translated into GPS 1 & 2.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Brian is earning himself a solid reputation for his anti-QLD rants.


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Gee whiz... i thought I was bringing balance to the occasion. Not everything is briliant in qld. especially this fog delaying my flight
Everybody does not have to have the same opinion @TOCC. That is why we are a democratic society.

 

[The sage]

WOW, I don't remember anyone putting Mr McGregor down. He obviously has the experience, nobody has said he DOESN'T!

HE IS A CANDIDATE (IF HE MAKES THE TEAM, and I'm sure he probably will), just by being in the team! Hewat without doubt does have greater experience, where the team he is in wins or loses. And your last comment (last sentence) is true.

 

[The sage]

LMAO Brian

 

[The sage]

Brian,
Just as a guide, Churchie was a very good team last. I have been involved with schoolboy Rugby for about 40 years, and that team was probably a one in 15-20 year team. Not as good as GT from 76-80, but they were very good.

Seen some footage of the Sydney GPS teams this year and they were easily in their league, if not better. Because come rain, hail or shine (the buggers!) did not make too many mistakes or drop the ball. My view is that more of them should have been (and as a non-Chirchie supporter I don't like saying this but!) more in the Queensland team last year.

 

[Wristman]

The debate is more than interesting after your comment. Maybe the selectors did favour Queensland, maybe they didn't. Maybe they were looking at combinations maybe they weren't. Two things for sure: 1) This type of "blame analysis" is probably not productive! and 2) They won't be selectors long if they don't produce results.

As far as your comments go:
*Yes NSW 2 beat Qld 1, but it was hardly convincing by the score; two points in it and Qld 1 was 3 tries to 2. COMMON, if that was your son and he lost by 2 points, you wouldn't be thrashing his all around the paddock! Would Ya?
*NSW 1 on paper appeared to be the best team. The interstate competition SHOULD BE the main barometer for selection in almost all occasions.
*One of the three spots was Reece Hewat
* Queensland does not have a mortgage on being parochial, NSW has also had it's turn at this on more than one occasion!
and
*lastly blind Freddie CAN'T see! He's blind!

On the other side of the coin, I think Gavin Luka, Moroney & Fox acquitted themselves well in the NZ match.

I also hope that (the bias) does not happen, but I and we cannot control that, only the selectors and coaches can. Merit and combinations is the best method. To give you an indication some of this (bias) has already happening with the QLD GPS teams. IGS and TSS had high numbers in the trials.

Don't disagree with anything you are saying Sage.
Not criticising the performance of the boys that were selected.
This is not a blame analysis
All I have questioned is the basis of selection last year.
My firm belief remains that the Australian selectors last year weren't balanced and fair. I don't believe I'm alone in thinking this.
You concede that the Interstate championship should be the barometer for selection.
For 2 years the final has been contested by the 2 NSW teams.
NSW I have beaten NSW II who have beaten QLD I
From this it is reasonable to assume that at this point in time schoolboy rugby in NSW appears to be in slightly better shape with a greater depth of talent.
A national side with a QLD skew doesn't reflect that. A team loaded with Australian schoolboys shouldn't be losing to the second string side from another State.
It appeared easier for a QLD boy to get the nod over boys from other States.
That isn't how it should be.
Your comment on combinations is valid and I'm sure was used as a rationale for selections made.
As is your comment on whether they stay selectors based on performance.
It will be a shame though if Australian Schools have another average year with a QLD skewed side if QLD continue to underperform at the interstate championship.

 

[The sage]

Yes agree and fully understand. I definitely don't like seeing that.

(I'm turning into such a YES man!), but what your saying seems reasonable.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS rugby is not selective. You either follow it or you don't.

Have eagerly followed the Australian Under 20 s, waking up at ungodly hours to catch up on results. This years Under 20 s have played extremely well, and yes performed very well. But they were the year before Aust School Boys 2013. (Unless I am mistaken) Last years Aust Schools are yet to be seen in the under 20 s program as I don't believe this years program has commenced.

Is there another team at the U20s wearing gold? One that wasn't out scrummaged by everyone they played? One that had centres with peripheral vision and spacial awareness prepared and able to pass the ball? A team with a fullback who didn't run the ball back 50 m with 3 in support and then grubber kick it into touch?
And why was Kellaway named at 13 and then left on the wing hoping he could cadge the ball from the ball boy because there was stuff all other way he would touch it: compare the number of tries he scored last year with those this year.
If there was another team in gold then I must have watched them and not the Ozzies.
They continued a developing tradition of lack lustre performances when it matters.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Brian,
Just as a guide, Churchie was a very good team last. I have been involved with schoolboy Rugby for about 40 years, and that team was probably a one in 15-20 year team. Not as good as GT from 76-80, but they were very good.

Seen some footage of the Sydney GPS teams this year and they were easily in their league, if not better. Because come rain, hail or shine (the buggers!) did not make too many mistakes or drop the ball. My view is that more of them should have been (and as a non-Chirchie supporter I don't like saying this but!) more in the Queensland team last year.

If that be the case The Sage, Why were they not? This comes back to the crux of my debate