Australia's S14 Captain of the Season
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Trevor Allan (34)
Outsiders p.o.v it has to be Waugh. This is not to undermine the contributions of Sharpe & Genia at all. There is no doubt that Genia has a superstar in making look & his leadership contributes someway to the Reds revival.
But Waugh has his team in the semi-finals and he must take credit for some of that. He has a real lead-by-nature type of presence about him & I think he's highly looked up to by all 'n sundry (although those of you with inside knowledge may disagree).
I'd go Waugh, Genia, Sharp then Hoiles.
But Waugh has his team in the semi-finals and he must take credit for some of that. He has a real lead-by-nature type of presence about him & I think he's highly looked up to by all 'n sundry (although those of you with inside knowledge may disagree).
I'd go Waugh, Genia, Sharp then Hoiles.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
what was genias actually captain tally. he dwas reds third choice wasnt he?
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Noddy said:
he was second then, didnt braid captain at some point? just asking, not having a go!
still, whats round did he take over from and did his effort in the captaincy department mean his contribution was that much higher in the stakes of this poll?
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
Biffo said:
Then why even bother replying to my stupid posts, the jokes on you bloke :lmao:
And why would I appoint Quade as captain, going by your theory, when I said Genia was the standout player in the Super 14, can you read?
Many are selecting Sharpe as the best captain for this very reason, because he was the standout player in a VERY BAD TEAM. You can't just give the best captain award to somebody because you feel sorry for them.
At the end of the day, Genia will be remembered for his captaincy of the resurgent Reds through the 2010 season, Sharpe and the woeful Force won't blink an eye lid.
I'm not saying Sharpe is a bad captain, but Genia clearly did the better job.
I'm not sold on Genia, his team lost a few close games where you'd think a great captain would have pulled the troops together. He seemed reluctant to take the job, not keen on keeping it if Kev got better, and too softly spoken for my liking. At best he was a likeable caretaker captain.
A captain's job is more than what happens on the field. The only captain to act in a professional manner all season was Phil. Sharpe said fuck in a press conference, Genia was captain cliche and Hoiles' referee management was appalling.
Waugh's captaincy was the sole reason the Tahs beat the Force, and a big part of beating the Reds too.
1. :waugh:
2. :sharpe:
3. Genia
4. Hoiles
A captain's job is more than what happens on the field. The only captain to act in a professional manner all season was Phil. Sharpe said fuck in a press conference, Genia was captain cliche and Hoiles' referee management was appalling.
Waugh's captaincy was the sole reason the Tahs beat the Force, and a big part of beating the Reds too.
1. :waugh:
2. :sharpe:
3. Genia
4. Hoiles
I thought my feelings on Sharpe were well known, but apparently not! For the record, he is a seagulling mongoloid who gets picked for the sole reason that he is tall. I have serious doubts that he pushed in a scrums, and don't believe I've ever picked him in a 3-2-1, but even I have to give him some credit this season. He's done a great job with a long injury list and an unstable coach.Reddy! said:
Hodgson has been excellent this year, though he's been excellent as a 1 man band, his combo with Sharpe is not one I love at all.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
To put this all in perspective the difference in experience is huge. Sharpe and Waugh may lead better but they have been around the block a few times. They are great leaders no doubt but what I admire most this year is how Genia took it on the chin and stepped up. The burdon not impeding his own game was a huge credit to him. Waugh and Sharpe did not have to face this problem this year.
I can't help but think what if? If Kev was not injured and we were comparing his performance. Given that lock injuries were the biggest blow for the Reds this year, I think we may still be judging his performance as the Reds head into the finals. As I said, what if?
Congrats to all the above three on their efforts.
I can't help but think what if? If Kev was not injured and we were comparing his performance. Given that lock injuries were the biggest blow for the Reds this year, I think we may still be judging his performance as the Reds head into the finals. As I said, what if?
Congrats to all the above three on their efforts.
I started to post on the thread but fell asleep. When I revisited. Moses had already written most of what I wanted to say.
I thought the thread was more about who would be second best because I didn't think that there was much debate as to who was the best Oz captain, as captain, rather that who was the best player who was a captain.
As Moses indicated: Waugh, as captain, was primarily responsible for the wins against the Reds and the Force, but he was also influential, as captain, in other tight games. If he were "guaranteed" a Wallaby spot I would have no hesitation in appointing him as the Wallaby skipper, but he's not.
There may be nay sayers who point the finger at on field negative play by the Tahs, but it's as sensible for blaming him for that as it would be to credit him with the positive play of the Tahs in the last two weeks or even against the Lions and Cheetahs - or against the Blues when they, at least, had a crack.
As there was no debate for me as who was first, neither was there any for who was second: Sharpe. Sure, sometimes the Force looked like headless chooks but who of the other 3 teams did not look a bit gormless in too many games?
Sharpe, as captain, was valuable to the Force and I doubt if they would swap him for any other captain, as captain. As to Sharpe as a player: he will be one of the first chosen for the Wallabies on 2010 form. Anybody who disagrees should come up with a better candidate. And not to the point of this thread but he played a lot at TH lock this year.
I won't talk about Genia except to say he didn't fail in a role he did not seek. As for Hoiles: his performance in Sydney, as captain, did his team harm and the comparison with Waugh, as captain, in that game was like chalk and cheese.
I thought the thread was more about who would be second best because I didn't think that there was much debate as to who was the best Oz captain, as captain, rather that who was the best player who was a captain.
As Moses indicated: Waugh, as captain, was primarily responsible for the wins against the Reds and the Force, but he was also influential, as captain, in other tight games. If he were "guaranteed" a Wallaby spot I would have no hesitation in appointing him as the Wallaby skipper, but he's not.
There may be nay sayers who point the finger at on field negative play by the Tahs, but it's as sensible for blaming him for that as it would be to credit him with the positive play of the Tahs in the last two weeks or even against the Lions and Cheetahs - or against the Blues when they, at least, had a crack.
As there was no debate for me as who was first, neither was there any for who was second: Sharpe. Sure, sometimes the Force looked like headless chooks but who of the other 3 teams did not look a bit gormless in too many games?
Sharpe, as captain, was valuable to the Force and I doubt if they would swap him for any other captain, as captain. As to Sharpe as a player: he will be one of the first chosen for the Wallabies on 2010 form. Anybody who disagrees should come up with a better candidate. And not to the point of this thread but he played a lot at TH lock this year.
I won't talk about Genia except to say he didn't fail in a role he did not seek. As for Hoiles: his performance in Sydney, as captain, did his team harm and the comparison with Waugh, as captain, in that game was like chalk and cheese.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
If Cooper could tackle, or if Horwill hadn't knocked the ball on it is unlikely that the Tahs would have won the game vs the Reds. I think there is just a little overstatement in saying that Waugh was 'primarily responsible' for the win against the Reds. Surely Waugh didn't have more of an influence on the game than the rest of the players combined?
I also note that Waugh wasn't on the field in another close win for the Tahs. (I can't remember which team it was off the top of my head though.)
I don't doubt that he is a great captain, but lets not exaggerate his influence too much.
Against the Force Waugh had a massive influence in the last 15 minutes. It was inspirational stuff, one of the best captains knocks I've seen on a rugby field, the sort of influence I'd associate more with another Waugh.
Against the Reds the Tahs were camped in your 22 for about 5 minutes, something had to crack and I wouldn't blame Quade for missing Palu from 3 metres, not many backs would make that tackle.
He was also in everything against the Brumbies in another tight one (I've just been getting more highlights from that game). That makes three tight local derbies and we won them all.
Against the Reds the Tahs were camped in your 22 for about 5 minutes, something had to crack and I wouldn't blame Quade for missing Palu from 3 metres, not many backs would make that tackle.
He was also in everything against the Brumbies in another tight one (I've just been getting more highlights from that game). That makes three tight local derbies and we won them all.
Yeah - although Waugh had no role in the tackle of Palu by Cooper he was the individual most responsible for the lead up. Quade Cooper, the worst goal line defender of the S14 - even including Terblanche - was never going to make that tackle on Cliffy so that 'what if' doesn't resonate. There were lots of ifs and buts in that last 15 minutes from both sides that you could 'what if' about, but I said at the time that without Waugh we wouldn't have won that game and I'm not changing my opinion on that for an odd tackle or knock-on.
Agree about the derbies. Waugh shines as captain in those matches and though not to the point, they also suit his tight/loose game.
The Tahs players are shit scared of letting him down. I remember his getting right up Sheehan a few years ago for some dumb infraction that the scrummie had made. I saw the infringement but the officials didn't and the Tahs scored a try, but he still got up Sheehan walking back to the half way line.
Not the most gracious loser when being interviewed after the game though. He should give more credit to the victors. I ribbed his father about it last year and queried if he was brought up right, but he said he had mentioned it to his son but it hadn't had any effect.
Agree about the derbies. Waugh shines as captain in those matches and though not to the point, they also suit his tight/loose game.
The Tahs players are shit scared of letting him down. I remember his getting right up Sheehan a few years ago for some dumb infraction that the scrummie had made. I saw the infringement but the officials didn't and the Tahs scored a try, but he still got up Sheehan walking back to the half way line.
Not the most gracious loser when being interviewed after the game though. He should give more credit to the victors. I ribbed his father about it last year and queried if he was brought up right, but he said he had mentioned it to his son but it hadn't had any effect.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Scotty said:
and if turner didnt knock the ball on over the line in the first five minutes the tahs would have been up 10 nil and the game would have been totally different, lets not give the reds credit for losing a game that the tah won.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
I'm not. I'm just trying to point out that Waugh doesn't necessarily determine all those little things that happen, that ensured the NSW won the game. He may have had more influence on the game that most other players, but that doesn't make him primarily responsible for the win.
But I understand that actually reading my post correctly doesn't really concern you, as you are just looking to have a dig at Qld at every opportunity.
But I understand that actually reading my post correctly doesn't really concern you, as you are just looking to have a dig at Qld at every opportunity.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Scotty said:
thats not true, ive just grown more and more tired as the season went on that every thread has turned into a reds lovathon when they have lost to both the brumbies and tahs and have finished equal on wins with the brumbies, the tahs have been the better team but alot of people seem to think the reds improvement (and dont get me wrong its been fantastic and ive enjoyed watching them and there success) means that every player is better in there given position than every other australian player. that is just crap, plain and simple, and its getting tiring every time a post comes up hearing a reds fan go on and on about how great there team is when there only great compared to the last five years or so of shitedom. if your comparing this reds team to last years reds team than every player is better but to critcise other teams and say the reds style is the way to play when they havnt made the finals and have at times cracked under the pressure, losing two home games and blowing a win over the tahs makes your fandom seem more contrived than mine.
i voted for sharpe in this thread, i will again, he is an actual leader, not a flavour of the month.
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