Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Has Chris White reffed a game where it hasn't been about him?
Aviva Premiership 2010-2011
- Thread starter TheRiddler
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Has Chris White reffed a game where it hasn't been about him?
On Riddlers point in the quote - over there ESPN won the rights to broadcast the AP which Sky Sports had previously; so I was looking forward to seeing it on ESPN here.
But different strokes for different folks. Setanta got the rights to broadcast the AP in Oz (with the excellent ESPN commentary of Mullins, Kay and Healey) and as they were also broadcasting the Heineken Cup, Amlin and Magners it was a no brainer to subscribe to Setanta in Oz at a reasonable cost.
Perhaps ESPN had world wide rights and flogged this area off to Setanta - I don't know.
I wonder what the situation for the 2011 6N is in Oz.
But different strokes for different folks. Setanta got the rights to broadcast the AP in Oz (with the excellent ESPN commentary of Mullins, Kay and Healey) and as they were also broadcasting the Heineken Cup, Amlin and Magners it was a no brainer to subscribe to Setanta in Oz at a reasonable cost.
Perhaps ESPN had world wide rights and flogged this area off to Setanta - I don't know.
I wonder what the situation for the 2011 6N is in Oz.
Bloody funny dobber - you're the UTube Man - you're the man, I tells ya.
It's on ESPN.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Big News in England Gavin Henson signs for Saracens
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/106281969/Getty-Images-Sport
"Saracens have confirmed the signing of Wales international centre Gavin Henson from the Ospreys.
Henson will link up with the Aviva Premiership club after the Ospreys "reluctantly agreed" to release him from the remaining seven months of his contract at the Swansea-based region."
Phil Vickery to announce retirement later today:
Former England captain and British and Irish Lions prop Phil Vickery will announce his retirement from the game following medical advice after he sustained yet another neck injury.
The Wasps strongman and a World Cup winner from 2003, is set to announce his decision at a press conference later today
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/106281969/Getty-Images-Sport
"Saracens have confirmed the signing of Wales international centre Gavin Henson from the Ospreys.
Henson will link up with the Aviva Premiership club after the Ospreys "reluctantly agreed" to release him from the remaining seven months of his contract at the Swansea-based region."
Phil Vickery to announce retirement later today:
Former England captain and British and Irish Lions prop Phil Vickery will announce his retirement from the game following medical advice after he sustained yet another neck injury.
The Wasps strongman and a World Cup winner from 2003, is set to announce his decision at a press conference later today
That's bad news for Vickery who is a quality prop and a quality individual. Bad news for Wasps also: their other THPs are not up too much and they have only one decent LHP.
Props have always had occupational neck injuries down the years because scrums collapse, but without doing any scientific research the vibe tells me that there have been more instances of props retiring for the same reason because of the increasing incidence of the power hit.
Power hits are harmful to necks not only because of repetitive impacts on the disks which are not elastic, but also because they cause more scrum collapses than in earlier days. The increased forces applied have to be lined up more accurately than before; so more scrums are going down.
I'm just guessing but it's likely that Ben Darwin would agree.
As for Henson: quality player when he's healthy and available to play and not injured or dancing. There's a whiff of Cipriani "high maintenance required" about him.
I hope for Sarries sake that they don't have trouble with him. They could do with a bit of good news after losing flyhalf Hougaard for a long time. If Henson gets together with Barrett, a quality 12, in the midfield they could cause a bit of damage.
Props have always had occupational neck injuries down the years because scrums collapse, but without doing any scientific research the vibe tells me that there have been more instances of props retiring for the same reason because of the increasing incidence of the power hit.
Power hits are harmful to necks not only because of repetitive impacts on the disks which are not elastic, but also because they cause more scrum collapses than in earlier days. The increased forces applied have to be lined up more accurately than before; so more scrums are going down.
I'm just guessing but it's likely that Ben Darwin would agree.
As for Henson: quality player when he's healthy and available to play and not injured or dancing. There's a whiff of Cipriani "high maintenance required" about him.
I hope for Sarries sake that they don't have trouble with him. They could do with a bit of good news after losing flyhalf Hougaard for a long time. If Henson gets together with Barrett, a quality 12, in the midfield they could cause a bit of damage.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Tbh if sarries academy inside backs stepped up they wouldn't need Henson,
Two guys ive played against Jake Sharp and Owen Farrell (son of andy) have been injured this season, Jake broke his arm preseason and owen is recovering from appendicitis.
They are both quality players selected for the U20 squad this year and were part of the undefeated u18 squad of 2009,
Lee if you haven't seen it before Owen Farrell is no 12 and Sharp is no 23 and gets the ball at 5:05, ive played against nearly everyone in their backline (not the 9). Manu tuilagi is on the right wing, chris wade (sevens star left wing) and george ford (only 16 in this video) is 10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfJHQ3aG-5o
Two guys ive played against Jake Sharp and Owen Farrell (son of andy) have been injured this season, Jake broke his arm preseason and owen is recovering from appendicitis.
They are both quality players selected for the U20 squad this year and were part of the undefeated u18 squad of 2009,
Lee if you haven't seen it before Owen Farrell is no 12 and Sharp is no 23 and gets the ball at 5:05, ive played against nearly everyone in their backline (not the 9). Manu tuilagi is on the right wing, chris wade (sevens star left wing) and george ford (only 16 in this video) is 10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfJHQ3aG-5o
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I'm a bit late picking up on this, LG, but I'm totally in agreement with you.
I'd go further. The power hit is basically responsible for the problems we have with re-sets, crooked feeds and scrums wheeling in an uncontrolled fashion. Referees have to blow up so many scrums because of players going to ground that they're not game to use the whistle each time the ball is fed behind the hooker's legs. And scrum coaches appear not to bother with building a stable scrum structure any more.
A single change to the laws is basically all that is required to shift us back towards the classical form of scrummaging.The front rows should form up without the rest of the pack being attached. There is no reason to change the "crouch-touch-pause-engage" sequence as referees would be easily able to observe whether shoulders were above hips and whether props were taking their binds correctly. Even if the players go to ground the culprits would be readily identifiable. Further the forces involved would not be not such that there was much prospect of injury. As usual I am in the minority as I see nothing wrong with referees delaying the "engage" call. Players should not be trying to anticipate the go signal, and following the law change they should be able to maintain stability in the absence of the second and back rowers pushing them forward.
After the front rows have engaged the referee would call in the other players. The laws against pushing over the mark or failing to take the weight of the opposition pack would be applied until the ball is fed into the scrum. And most importantly there should be an insistence that the ball be fed along the centre line just as it has to be in lineouts.
We would see a return to actual hooking, one of the great art forms of rugby. Scrums would thereby become a genuine contest and we would see genuine tight heads being won. And after the ball was hooked it would have to be directed back to one of the channels at the rear of the scrum while the other pack was working to disrupt this procedure by trying to drive forward. Some of us have been around for long enough to remember when packs could systematically direct ball to different channels or hold it in front of the No. 8's feet until the half back called for it.
None at all, but that has never stopped me posting about things, especially as my wife has just asked me to pick up the dog shit on the lawn.
At first glance of reading that I thought it was about not getting enough time. I had seen Mujati starting in front of him and propping well too, but since only a sample of Premiership games can be viewed on TV in Oz I didn't pick that Murray had played so few games. Even though Saints wouldn't have used him on Sundays it is an extraordinary low number, especially since they would have scheduled his starting games for other days. If he's looking for a game I'd like to have him at the Tahs come February; but I digress.
BUT since it is with immediate effect I doubt if getting enough time was the reason. Apart from the the 4 that Dobbie will mention after reading this, Saints have the best scrummaging front row in Europe in my opinion, with Tonga'uhia on the LH side plus Pom hooker Hartley. I doubt if the team would willingly discard Murray to take away that weapon. Depending on who they get to replace him it would save money most likely but that wouldn't be the reason for the break.
I can only conclude that Murray breached some team rule and took exception to censure. I look forward to reading the reason and being amused by my guess.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Not much big news surrounding Euan Murray leaving, he doesn't play on sundays and Mujati is playing better than him so he left.
Could either join Edinburgh. scarlets or somebody in dire need of props (which the scarlets are apparently)
Btw have any of you guys seen the monster hit by manu tuilagi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJUhpGvkaI
Haha im so glad he didnt do that to me when i played against him, I would've died
Could either join Edinburgh. scarlets or somebody in dire need of props (which the scarlets are apparently)
Btw have any of you guys seen the monster hit by manu tuilagi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJUhpGvkaI
Haha im so glad he didnt do that to me when i played against him, I would've died
Bruce
I read your post above and have decided to keep an eye on my letter box in the future. It is obvious that you have been reading my mail.
As I read through it I thought: there's a good bit, and there's another, until I realised it was all good bits.
I posted in another thread on the evolution of the scrum hit and how not too long ago by our standards the scrum guys just folded into each other, with the back rowers joining in and often waited for the scrummie to pick up the ball. Then the scrum shove started with the put in as the laws at the time prescribed. Come to think of it: they still do.
Pro rugby has enabled front rowers to get paid for working our in the gym and being able to do power hits provided their neck discs hold out. That has exacerbated the problem.
Your idea of making the front rowers bind first has never interested the IRB though Blind Freddie can see that scrum collapses, the spawn of the power hit, are a blight on the game. And as you correctly point out: there are other consequences.
I have to quote this bit though:
A tear came to my eye.
Younger blokes may beat their chests from their lounge chairs decrying a suggestion of the loss of the power aspect of the hit but there was still a lot of power in the old days - and technique - but it was after the ball was put into the scrum, and the players were ready and stable. The dominant scrum dominated don't you worry; it didn't need a power hit and the scrums stayed up most of the time. Free kicks for early engages as guessed by the referee? They were already engaged. Now and then there was one for pushing before the put in but so are there now.
As for the hooking contest: to be fair the younger blokes won't know what we are talking about unless they have read a few old rugby books. The idea of a contest for the ball by two hookers is outside their experience because they would think that the defending hooker always pushed, not hooked. If they had heard of it would think it was just a quaint old practice of the olden times.
Hopefully they will see it someday.
I read your post above and have decided to keep an eye on my letter box in the future. It is obvious that you have been reading my mail.
As I read through it I thought: there's a good bit, and there's another, until I realised it was all good bits.
I posted in another thread on the evolution of the scrum hit and how not too long ago by our standards the scrum guys just folded into each other, with the back rowers joining in and often waited for the scrummie to pick up the ball. Then the scrum shove started with the put in as the laws at the time prescribed. Come to think of it: they still do.
Pro rugby has enabled front rowers to get paid for working our in the gym and being able to do power hits provided their neck discs hold out. That has exacerbated the problem.
Your idea of making the front rowers bind first has never interested the IRB though Blind Freddie can see that scrum collapses, the spawn of the power hit, are a blight on the game. And as you correctly point out: there are other consequences.
I have to quote this bit though:
A tear came to my eye.
Younger blokes may beat their chests from their lounge chairs decrying a suggestion of the loss of the power aspect of the hit but there was still a lot of power in the old days - and technique - but it was after the ball was put into the scrum, and the players were ready and stable. The dominant scrum dominated don't you worry; it didn't need a power hit and the scrums stayed up most of the time. Free kicks for early engages as guessed by the referee? They were already engaged. Now and then there was one for pushing before the put in but so are there now.
As for the hooking contest: to be fair the younger blokes won't know what we are talking about unless they have read a few old rugby books. The idea of a contest for the ball by two hookers is outside their experience because they would think that the defending hooker always pushed, not hooked. If they had heard of it would think it was just a quaint old practice of the olden times.
Hopefully they will see it someday.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
I'd just like to point out that the hook is still an occasional part of the game in lower level rugby. It is a factor and while some younger or less experience rugby lovers may not know or have seen much about it, some of us do know what you guys are talking about.
Spoken like a true fullback
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Lee was there ever a time when Hookers got selected for their throwing and Hooking abilities. I mean all they do is chuck it into the line-out and kick backwards at scrum time. Probably technically the least demanding position on the field :fishing
Spoken like a true 10 :thumb
Spoken like a true 10 :thumb
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
Yeah dobby, I agree. Personally I think this scrum business is a conspiracy, where the forward packs have created a situation in which they simultaneously get a rest, the ball and get to gripe about doing all the work. Complete rubbish.
To finish, I'd like to put a mighty :fishing .
To finish, I'd like to put a mighty :fishing .
Were it not for the fishing icon that would raise a smile from a few grandfathers and great grandfathers. Hookers who could get tight heads in the old days were like rock stars. The closest comparison I can make is how the French venerate their THPs in the present day, or how gun slingers inspired awe in the Wild West. The funny thing was: they way they were revered, and especially by South Africans, was way out of scale to the one or two tight heads gained - and this was in the period when there was once 111 lineouts in a test match.
The old hookers who were stars didn't throw the ball into lineouts until later on and typically the blindside winger bowled the ball in overarm.
I don't usually recommended rugby autobiographies because most of them are dross but if anybody wants to read up on the old hookers role in the sport I commend them to read Peter Johnson's book "A Rugby Memoir" It's a great read on the period regardless and would make my list of top 5 best books on Australian rugby. (Somebody should start a thread.)
With all due respects to Kearns, Lawton, "real" old times and others, Johnson was our greatest ever hooker. He was robust and was the Oz hooker for all of the 1960s and and bit either side.
I saw him give an after dinner speech once and he'd have to be one of the most articulate front rowers I've listened to. He is also a lucid writer and like his speech that night, the dry humour rolls on and on. I should have done a review of the book when it came out 10 years ago because I would have written: "Laughed out loud" and "Couldn't put it down. His description of Southland rugby is hilarious.
He'd be a top hooker now too if he had been born at the same time as Moore and TPN because he could play tight and loose with equal interest and facility.
Get the book. I lucked out a a charity store, Vinnies, where I buy all my clothes (not that I'm cheap
) but you could probably get it if you google for a few minutes.
RugbyFuture
Lord Logo
I always had to hook at tighthead coz our hooker was shithouse...
a modern hooker should be a slightly loose acting and mighty forward in the game of play, I straight shooter in the lineout, an ambusher in the oppositions, and finally a mighty hooker, who can stick the ball in even the smallest of holes behind him...>:lmao:
a modern hooker should be a slightly loose acting and mighty forward in the game of play, I straight shooter in the lineout, an ambusher in the oppositions, and finally a mighty hooker, who can stick the ball in even the smallest of holes behind him...
>:lmao:
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
I'l look into it Lee sounds like a good read. My favourite rugby book at the moment is Winter Colours by Donald Mcrae,
Sorry poor knowledge about the lineouts, I forgot that the wings threw in in the 70's and earlier.
I admire people who liked and followed rugby before it became pro, the guys that played must have really enjoyed the game to play such a demanding sport alongside their day job, also im guessing that Southland Rugby is run like a shit heap
Sorry poor knowledge about the lineouts, I forgot that the wings threw in in the 70's and earlier.
I admire people who liked and followed rugby before it became pro, the guys that played must have really enjoyed the game to play such a demanding sport alongside their day job, also im guessing that Southland Rugby is run like a shit heap
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Seems like Brendan Venter was having a bit of fun in his interview with sky or is he a bit deranged http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE
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