Bledisloe 2 at Eden Park 18/10/20

[Uh huh]

Samu is really the invisible worker. I swear I never see much from him (maybe I’m just biased) but his stats are good.
6 carries, 6/6 tackles, 4 of them dominant and 3 turnovers.

Those are world class stats. Lots of posters on here calling for him to be dropped for a rookie after a draw in Wellington.

 

[TSR]

I am guessing most people here would have gladly taken the draw if it was offered before the game.

I’m also guessing most people on here would subscribe to the theory performance will improve as combinations build.

And yet, across the pages of the forum I think I’ve read -

Drop Fainga‘a, bench Fainga’a, bench Tupou, rotate the front row, drop LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), drop Wilson, we should drop Hooper but we know he won’t be dropped because he’s the favourite, drop Samu, bench Samu, play Liam Wright at 6,7 or Sub, drop Valetini, White was poor, White was great, JOC (James O'Connor) needs to be moved to 12, To'omua is rubbish, start Lolesio, drop Lolesio, bring in Simone, move Paisami to 12, bench Paisami, drop Paisami, drop Banks.

Thank God we didn’t lose.

 

[Purce]

I think people are mad here calling for To'omua's spot to be given to a complete Rookie. He affected several turnovers just from his rush defense decisions alone and was still rallying the defensive line, making hits, bouncing back to his feet and resetting quicker than anyone at the 85th minute. He had a remarkable game in defense. One of the best I can ever recall seeing from a 12. Add to that he appears to be a real general out there. Clearly one of the leaders.

On attack I really do not think he was anywhere near as poor as a few people are making out. The game plan was clearly to kick in behind the NZ D line. Rennie made several references to this in interviews. He was also obviously told to continue as they stuck with the tactic in the 2nd half. Did he execute the kicks perfectly? No. But there is very much a reason for this tactic. Particularly in a windy, wet game where the outside defense was rushing up against a team who haven't used kicking as an attacking weapon in years. Personally I like it, it keeps the opposition guessing and their defense honest.

I think we will see a few more pocket runners popping out from inside To'omua's shoulder to his outside this week to take advantage of the space left by a rush D one or 2 players wider. Not dissimilar to the line JOC (James O'Connor) and Daugunu ran for MK's try on the weekend. Also the rush D wide cut down most of To'omua's options to go wide when he opted to kick plus I think they were a little gun shy after the intercept (or 2?) in the first half which thankfully were while we had advantage. A couple of them could have gone through the hands but most seemed to be shut down by good rush D which her then either tried to place an attacking kick or take into contact. If they get a pocket runner or 2 in that shape I think we will see quite a few more line breaks.

They all deserve another crack. Only change for me would be JP in at 13 or 22 with Paisami the others.

 

[Joe Blow]

I would guess that you bring JP onto the bench in place of Lolesio. No slight on him but he will get a chance soon enough, and exactly at which point would you bring him on for a test debut at Eden park against a fired up ABs? There is no need with both JOC (James O'Connor) and To'omua on the pitch. Worst case scenario Hodge slips into 10 if we lose the other two(unlikely).
To'omua was fine. His defence was directly responsible for 2-3 turnovers and he’s a good kicking option if JOC (James O'Connor) has another bad day. Hes a proven test player and brings good balance to that backline.

 

[Joe Blow]

The ABs would have a field day with Lolesio.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
The only change worth considering, unless he decides to change tactics and needs different cattle to do so.

 

[dru]

Those are world class stats. Lots of posters on here calling for him to be dropped for a rookie after a draw in Wellington.

Those stats are world class? I’m not calling for him to be dropped, but really?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

In my first post on the Bledisloe1 match thread I wrote " I think it's possible Fozzie will try to put his "best players" out there which isn't necessarily his "best team" of players (guys out of position, out-of-balance units, etc)" & IMO that's exactly what happened in the loose forwards, midfield & back three esp after Beaugan's injury.

I've never believed in making changes unless there's a better option available so other than possibly starting Coles (in a fight-fire-with-fire role) I'd leave the tight five as is (Karl got owned a coupla times late but would Hodgman go any better?).

Sotutu provided impact off the bench but possibly should've come on sooner, Frizell was anonymous so to me he's the guy who goes: ASav to six (Baby Sav's arrival permitting), Akira to start under instructions to go hard for 40 & make the change at HT. If Savea is out, Papali'i comes in.

I really don't care which of Mo'unga or Beaugan starts at 10 but the other has to be on the bench. Even if they're sharing first receiver duties no-one can be expected to go 80 in a split role. Either way it's JBar at 15 & Clarke at 14 for me.

I'm undecided whether Rieko gets another run at 13: he really only made two (detected ) consequential errors but OTH this is must-win so possibly not the right place for on-the-job training. On balance I'd probably start AL-B & have Rieko on the bench.

 

[rodha]

I think people are mad here calling for To'omua's spot to be given to a complete Rookie. He affected several turnovers just from his rush defense decisions alone and was still rallying the defensive line, making hits, bouncing back to his feet and resetting quicker than anyone at the 85th minute. He had a remarkable game in defense. One of the best I can ever recall seeing from a 12. Add to that he appears to be a real general out there. Clearly one of the leaders.

On attack I really do not think he was anywhere near as poor as a few people are making out. The game plan was clearly to kick in behind the NZ D line. Rennie made several references to this in interviews. He was also obviously told to continue as they stuck with the tactic in the 2nd half. Did he execute the kicks perfectly? No. But there is very much a reason for this tactic. Particularly in a windy, wet game where the outside defense was rushing up against a team who haven't used kicking as an attacking weapon in years. Personally I like it, it keeps the opposition guessing and their defense honest.

I think we will see a few more pocket runners popping out from inside To'omua's shoulder to his outside this week to take advantage of the space left by a rush D one or 2 players wider. Not dissimilar to the line JOC (James O'Connor) and Daugunu ran for MK's try on the weekend. Also the rush D wide cut down most of To'omua's options to go wide when he opted to kick plus I think they were a little gun shy after the intercept (or 2?) in the first half which thankfully were while we had advantage. A couple of them could have gone through the hands but most seemed to be shut down by good rush D which her then either tried to place an attacking kick or take into contact. If they get a pocket runner or 2 in that shape I think we will see quite a few more line breaks.

They all deserve another crack. Only change for me would be JP in at 13 or 22 with Paisami the others.

Your attack had Wisemantal's signature all over it. I thought his influence was the most evident of the new coaching staff.

They were running great lines, varying it up with different angles, and playing brilliantly off 9. If you watch the world cup semi-final you can notice England doing very similar backline moves. Quite innovative plays, with multiple moving parts, decoy runners, over-lapping runners etc.. It's truly beautiful stuff to watch and rugby union at it's finest.

I honestly think Wisemantal might've been an even more important pick-up for your Wallabies than Rennie.

 

[Highkicks]

in

I am guessing most people here would have gladly taken the draw if it was offered before the game.

I’m also guessing most people on here would subscribe to the theory performance will improve as combinations build.

And yet, across the pages of the forum I think I’ve read -

Drop Fainga‘a, bench Fainga’a, bench Tupou, rotate the front row, drop LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), drop Wilson, we should drop Hooper but we know he won’t be dropped because he’s the favourite, drop Samu, bench Samu, play Liam Wright at 6,7 or Sub, drop Valetini, White was poor, White was great, JOC (James O'Connor) needs to be moved to 12, To'omua is rubbish, start Lolesio, drop Lolesio, bring in Simone, move Paisami to 12, bench Paisami, drop Paisami, drop Banks.

Thank God we didn’t lose.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting wholesale changes, you’ve combined multiple opinions there. It was a fantastic game with lots of great performances but it’s a competitive environment and just because the team did well it doesn’t mean individuals shouldn’t be accountable.

The AB’s had a draw and I imagine they’re going to make some changes with a lot of upside. We’re going to have to execute much better than we did and I don’t think a few selection changes would be unwarranted. People are just looking at options, which is perfectly reasonable.

I think people are mad here calling for To'omua's spot to be given to a complete Rookie. He affected several turnovers just from his rush defense decisions alone and was still rallying the defensive line, making hits, bouncing back to his feet and resetting quicker than anyone at the 85th minute. He had a remarkable game in defense. One of the best I can ever recall seeing from a 12. Add to that he appears to be a real general out there. Clearly one of the leaders.

On attack I really do not think he was anywhere near as poor as a few people are making out. The game plan was clearly to kick in behind the NZ D line. Rennie made several references to this in interviews. He was also obviously told to continue as they stuck with the tactic in the 2nd half. Did he execute the kicks perfectly? No. But there is very much a reason for this tactic. Particularly in a windy, wet game where the outside defense was rushing up against a team who haven't used kicking as an attacking weapon in years. Personally I like it, it keeps the opposition guessing and their defense honest.

I’ve already stayed my take on his performance so I’ll try not to bang on about it but that take is just not the reality. I’m going through and rewatching the game but I think he made one tackle that effected a turnover. He did not “lead” the defensive line, he found himself next to the ruck a lot, wasn’t barking orders or organising anyone that I could see. The forwards led the defensive charge on phase play, he was mostly behind this front line and the 2nd man in the tackle. He also missed 3 tackles from 9 attempted according to the smh. He was good in defence but hardly remarkable.

Also if kicking away the ball on attack is the plan we are in trouble. 4 turnovers from kicks is just that no matter how you try to paint it. If it was the game plan why was he the only player to do so. I imagine when Rennie spoke about kicking during the week he meant like White and Paisami, smart kicks that have a good chance of having an upside for us. Not literally kicking the ball straight to the opposition when we have an overlap against a broken defence, on multiple occasions. That doesn’t add anything at all, the defence won’t change, it does the opposite of keeping the defence “honest” it’s a massive let off.

I can understand To'omua starting, it’s not what I’d do but that’s fine. I just think we should call a spade a spade with that performance or at least dispense with the exaggerated notion he had some amazing game. I’d unhappily concede an average performance to stop talking about it but it certainly wasn’t a good game from him.

 

[Slim 293]

The ABs would have a field day with Lolesio.

As they did with Wilson, Paisami and Daugunu?

 

[TSR]

in

I don’t think anyone is suggesting wholesale changes, you’ve combined multiple opinions there. It was a fantastic game with lots of great performances but it’s a competitive environment and just because the team did well it doesn’t mean individuals shouldn’t be accountable.

The AB’s had a draw and I imagine they’re going to make some changes with a lot of upside. We’re going to have to execute much better than we did and I don’t think a few selection changes would be unwarranted. People are just looking at options, which is perfectly reasonable.

Sure - and I’m not completely against change - but I have read a couple of comments who have suggested 4-5 changes. In a game where both our defensive system & attacking structure was mostly good.

I guess I am just surprised at the expectations of some for our first hit out. I also think some seem to just angle for change for changes sake and some seem to always have an angle on how they get their favourite player into the team and their least favourite out. Accountability is fine - but there also has to be an realistic expectations and, preferably, at least some degree of objectivity in comments. I find it weird people can focus on a couple of negatives in a player but ignore all their positive contributions.

Which is fine, I guess - it is a fan opinion forum after all and I’d much rather passionate fans then a continuation of fans drifting away.

Plus, with Foley, Cooper, Pocock & Liam Gill all getting dudded by selectors again, I guess we need something to keep filling the pages here so I have something to read when I am supposed to be working.

#justiceforsimmo #wrightfor7 #hoopersacentre

 

[PhilClinton]

They all deserve another crack. Only change for me would be JP in at 13 or 22 with Paisami the others.

As mentioned by others I strongly believe you need to start JP or leave him out, with his current fitness status.

I'm sure someone has the actual stats but I'm nearly certain he hasn't played a full game of rugby for two years now due to injury breakdowns. High risk move putting him on the bench, bringing him on with 30mins to go and he goes down. The reshuffle that causes would unsettle the backline.

 

[KOB1987]

Regardless of the performance on Sunday, Rennie will still want to put what he thinks his best team is this weekend at Eden Park. Bear in mind it wasn't a perfect performance and it was also his first team selection with a lot of new faces, I doubt very much he thought he was going to nail it with his first crack. It's still a work in progress and he'll be doing some fine tuning.

An analogy is a team that is playing for a grand final spot and there is a star player injured for the game, the team wins and makes it through to the grand final, if that player is fit the coach is still going to select him for the big dance regardless of how well his substitute played.

From all accounts his preferred team had Petaia and DHP in it, I understand that Petaia is ready to be selected, but not sure about DHP, so Banks may retain his spot this week. I'm pretty sure the hookers will be rotated around as well.

 

[Joe Blow]

As they did with Wilson, Paisami and Daugunu?

It’s very different.
I’m a big fan of Lolesio, but throwing him in at Eden Park with an angry AB pack is not the way. The others are more physically imposing and in their positions possibly under less pressure. I agree it could have gone badly for Paisami but he came through the test well.
It is not the place to blood Lolesio. Even against a minnow we do not need 3 10s. I would play him against Argentina and leave one of JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua out of the 23.

 

[formerflanker]

Regardless of the performance on Sunday, Rennie will still want to put what he thinks his best team is this weekend at Eden Park. Bear in mind it wasn't a perfect performance and it was also his first team selection with a lot of new faces, I doubt very much he thought he was going to nail it with his first crack. It's still a work in progress and he'll be doing some fine tuning.

An analogy is a team that is playing for a grand final spot and there is a star player injured for the game, the team wins and makes it through to the grand final, if that player is fit the coach is still going to select him for the big dance regardless of how well his substitute played.

From all accounts his preferred team had Petaia and DHP in it, I understand that Petaia is ready to be selected, but not sure about DHP, so Banks may retain his spot this week. I'm pretty sure the hookers will be rotated around as well.

There are several Tests left in this calendar year and a long way to the next World Cup. My tip is that Rennie will make any change a slow process.
My prediction is for only one non-injury related change for next weekend.

 

[KOB1987]

There are several Tests left in this calendar year and a long way to the next World Cup. My tip is that Rennie will make any change a slow process.
My prediction is for only one non-injury related change for next weekend.

I agree with that approach, and your stance by and large. Deciphering my post above, I think Petaia will come in to 13, Paisami will go to the bench at Lolesio's expense, and Uelese will start and Fainga'a will be benched. That's it for this week.

 

[Dctarget]

I'm still on my one eyed bandwagon calling for FF (Folau Fainga'a) to be benched. Imagine if Ioane's try stood we'd almost be shut out of the game there. It was all on an unforced error from FF (Folau Fainga'a) whilst we were hot on attack with a chance of coming away with a try or at least points. His errant throws also could've been the difference between a draw and a win. Give 'em half each. I'm sure Rennie is well aware of all this though.

 

[Derpus]

#BringBackLatu

 

[Braveheart81]

Samu is really the invisible worker. I swear I never see much from him (maybe I’m just biased) but his stats are good.
6 carries, 6/6 tackles, 4 of them dominant and 3 turnovers.

One of those came from diving on a loose ball?

Out of interest, where are those stats from?

RugbyPass credits him with one turnover won (same as Hooper). Both were from diving on a loose ball.