Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016

[HoldingOn]

Does anyone know if Jed Holloway is still injured? Looked a bright prospect for the Tahs and is tall timber-195cm. Would be a good additional to the line-out and back row.

 

[zer0]

The all blacks only played a half of rugby last night.
Next time they will play a full 80 mins.

Sounds that way.

"We put a lot of effort into this game and we got the attitude right, we prepared at a really, really good level and the challenge is pretty basic: you've got to try and replicate that and bring the same degree of hunger and attitude into the week to make sure that we prepare for everything that Aussie is going to throw at us," All Blacks assistant coach Ian Foster said.

"History tells you there's big swings, or there's the potential for big swings, in Bledisloe games. We've come over here and got smacked and then responded pretty favourably when we got home and we know the Wallabies are a very proud team."

"While the scoreboard margin was big, there were a lot of things that happened on the park that if they could improve a little bit then I'm sure they'll figure that they can play better against us. You've got to enjoy the moment and then you've got to park it and go back from zero to a hundred again next week. That's our challenge."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...or-sydney-now-have-worries-about-maintaining-

 

[Pfitzy]

Does anyone know if Jed Holloway is still injured? Looked a bright prospect for the Tahs and is tall timber-195cm. Would be a good additional to the line-out and back row.

Believe it was a shoulder reco so he's out for months.

 

[KOB1987]

I hope I never see the likes of Frisby in a gold jumper again

Yeah, there's no reason to ditch Phipps for him that's for sure. A fit and in form Genia is clearly our best option and Phipps is well ahead of the rest of them despite his flaws. He also showed his worth as a benchie last night by being the best of our 3 wingers. And that's not because he scored a try either, he actually made a couple of line breaks and had a 100% tackle completion (6/6 I think?).

 

[HoldingOn]

Yeah, there's no reason to ditch Phipps for him that's for sure. A fit and in form Genia is clearly our best option and Phipps is well ahead of the rest of them despite his flaws. He also showed his worth as a benchie last night by being the best of our 3 wingers. And that's not because he scored a try either, he actually made a couple of line breaks and had a 100% tackle completion (6/6 I think?).

Although Phipps' passing is dodgy he still has a slight edge over Frisby I think. But barely.

 

[RedsHappy]

First thing to do before you even look at the backs is fix the forwards.

Fix the aggression in the tackle, work off the ball which will be all about attitude. Maybe dropping the consistently soft players like Simmons and now Moore.

Fix the set-piece. Line-out is a huge liability. Team selection will take a part here. Say goodbye to the Pooper. Fardy needs to starts with 2 jumping locks and another option at 8.

Accuracy, aggression and tactics at the breakdown. I think 90% of our rucks we did not have clean ball. Slowed down NZ every time. And 90% of NZ's ball was clean ball. Huge difference in this area. Genia did well with messy ball all game.

Seb - you're right.

But is it not clear from all of 2016's Wallaby efforts that what you correctly advocate is not self-fixing within this Wallaby system and neither is it being fixed by Cheika who's de facto forwards coach (or so it seems).

Cheika knows all about this - intense, aggressive, accurate forwards work was absolutely key to the Tahs' 2014 Super victory. He's not forgotten.

But my hypothesis is that it's a very different management challenge for him at Test level, and his managerial focus is and has to be different than it was at Moore Park. The job is so much more demanding and the competition far more testing (forgive the pun please).

It's why I'm convinced that Cheika needs a dedicated Wallaby forwards coach, just as Hansen was at the ABs under G Henry. (Why do we surmise that we don't need a full bevy of specialist coaches at national level when the best team in the world by far always has this complete structure?)

After 5 straight losses and a 0-3 outcome vs England at home and all you have said above, the more I consider the situation the more I'd opt for a radical plan of bringing Brad Thorn in here and now as Wallaby Forwards coach, at least for 2016. Fixing the loose and line out work of the Wallaby forwards is far more important than Thorn guiding and playing in the NRC.

 

[No4918]

After 5 straight losses and a 0-3 outcome vs England at home and all you have said above, the more I consider the situation the more I'd opt for a radical plan of bringing Brad Thorn in here and now as Wallaby Forwards coach, at least for 2016. Fixing the loose and line out work of the Wallaby forwards is far more important than Thorn guiding and playing in the NRC.

Of all people you are the last on here I would expect advocating the promotion of an assistant coach based on no more than a season with U20's. The world has gone mad.

 

[teach]

The all blacks only played a half of rugby last night.
Next time they will play a full 80 mins.

Oh god....please help


ABs to win by 60

Don't be silly. it won't be that big. Maybe 20.

 

[disco]

The Pooper is something I'm not going to give up on as I believe we can be a very good lineout team with 3 genuine Jumpers. Fardy has to come back in at 6. Rob Simmons brings nothing to the table and I think Douglas is there for the long haul so I like the idea of Douglas, Coleman & fardy.
Stepehen Moore is not our best hooker and to be honest would be lucky to come in as our 3rd choice. I'd Sart with TPN and Finish with James Hanson.

With Giteau & To'omua out I really hope Cheika takes a punt on a genuine 12 in Kyle Godwin. My Team for Wellington.

1.Slipper
2.TPN
3.Kepu
4. Coleman
5.Douglas
6.Fardy
7.Hooper - (C)
8.Pocock
9.Genia
10. Foley
11.DHP - trust your inside man FFS
12.Kyle Godwin
13. Kerevi
14.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15.Folau
res: Hanson, AAAAA, Sio, Mumm, McMahon, Phipps, Quade, Morahan.

Got to go for it now, no use losing with Moore and Simmons again we might as well start building now as it looks like the Bledisloe is gone and it only took 20 mniutes. Drop Kudriani to give him a kick in the arse.

 

[RedsHappy]

Of all people you are the last on here I would expect advocating the promotion of an assistant coach based on no more than a season with U20's. The world has gone mad.

Well, you may say that, but I am unashamedly for brainstorming some radical solutions given, shall we say, a 'rather serious situation' emerging for the Wallabies and their paying but declining fan base.

Thorn has absolute and enormous forwards cred, he's one of the best international rugby forwards modern rugby has ever seen and, at least according to the Reds/QRU, he's showing coaching skills in some form. I would see his potential Wallaby engagement as a qualified experiment for 2016, not a fixed 3-year contract for him.

Be sure, I would not be advocating this if I did not think that soon, if we do not improve vs NZ and more generally, irreparable damage may be done to the Wallaby fan base and thus its income into the ARU's coffers.

I would assume your advocacy in this area is: what? We just keep observing and complaining?

 

[HoldingOn]

Don't be silly. it won't be that big. Maybe 20.

Did you see the game? Or even this thread?

 

[Viking]

Yeah, there's no reason to ditch Phipps for him that's for sure. A fit and in form Genia is clearly our best option and Phipps is well ahead of the rest of them despite his flaws. He also showed his worth as a benchie last night by being the best of our 3 wingers. And that's not because he scored a try either, he actually made a couple of line breaks and had a 100% tackle completion (6/6 I think?).

If Bryne can work his magic on Phipps over the next 12 months and fix his passing Phipps will be a very very good test quality halfback.

 

[The torpedo]

Don't be silly. it won't be that big. Maybe 20.

Um did you not watch last night?
60 is definitely possible

 

[teach]

Yeah, I'm trying not to be to gloaty. I think it will be a loss, but possibly not another thrashing.
Like many kiwis, I was reasonably confident of a good win, but not 100%. Now and then, Australia can pull out a good game and knock over the ABs.

Its really hard to predict what will happen. I don't think they will be beaten so badly this week.

But shit, the ABs will never be weaker as they will next weekend. Forget Crotty and Fekitoa, that was never going to be as weak as some posters here thought. Fekitoa is a Highlander FFS, not exactly a team where a turnstile on defence keeps his position. But Crotty has a potential concussion, so could be in doubt. Naholo is out. We could well see a new cap at 12 and on the bench as wing cover. Coles played well despite injured ribs and all so I expect Coltman or Ash Dixon to cover hooker.

However I have just read an article with the inspiring headline:
The All Blacks have set themselves to grind Australia into the dust

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...or-sydney-now-have-worries-about-maintaining-

Will be an interesting week in Team Wallaby.

 

[Viking]

Well, you may say that, but I am unashamedly for brainstorming some radical solutions given, shall we say, a 'rather serious situation' emerging for the Wallabies and their paying but declining fan base.

Thorn has absolute and enormous forwards cred, he's one of the best international rugby forwards modern rugby has ever seen and, at least according to the Reds/QRU, he's showing coaching skills in some form. I would see his potential Wallaby engagement as a qualified experiment for 2016, not a fixed 3-year contract for him.

Be sure, I would not be advocating this if I did not think that soon, if we do not improve vs NZ and more generally, irreparable damage may be done to the Wallaby fan base and thus its income into the ARU's coffers.

I would assume your advocacy in this area is: what? We just keep observing and complaining?

We should do the same for the backs like bring in someone with absolute and enormous backs cred, one of the best international rugby backs modern rugby has ever seen and, at least according to the Brumbies/ARU, showing coaching skills in some form. Oh wait - that's Stephen Larkham and look how that's working out.

Although I guess bringing Thorn in wouldn't hurt at this stage. Anything is better then what we are currently doing.

But if your really after a proven forwards coach - Laurie Fisher is the man!

 

[RedsHappy]

^^^

I'd surely prefer Fisher as indicated elsewhere but, from all recent data I've seen, he's locked in in the UK.

Recall how EJ (Eddie Jones) drew upon Fowler, Ella, Johns for coaching and ideas input when he was last here. It was in the spirit of experimenting with 'special persons' that I brainstormed a Thorn involvement with the Wallabies for 2016.

Btw, Larkham is rapidly proving he's not a good coach. Thorn has not quite done that yet .

 

[No4918]

Thorn may be an excellent forwards coach but maybe not. Given your mistrust of the QRU I am surprised you show faith in their judgement on this.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the general theme of your posts on the matter. Things are getting dire and chances need to be taken. Larkham's struggles have me worried though part of his failure may be the joint roles which must now be banned from the ARU.

Jones did bring in specialists and I think Thorn may have a role to play in a similar capacity. I would not support his taking the job full time at this stage. It could damage his coaching development for some time. If we do want someone then Fisher is the man.

 

[Quick Hands]

Cheika knows all about this - intense, aggressive, accurate forwards work was absolutely key to the Tahs' 2014 Super victory. He's not forgotten.

But my hypothesis is that it's a very different management challenge for him at Test level, and his managerial focus is and has to be different than it was at Moore Park. The job is so much more demanding and the competition far more testing (forgive the pun please).

Coaching the Wallabies is completely different proposion from coaching a super side and if Cheika is following the same blueprint for each, he's set himself up for failure.

Super coaches have an off-season training period, a lengthy pre-season and by and large the players aren't coached by anyone else during that season. Under these circumstances Cheika can manage individuals and the whole over a long time frame and his managerial style will be suited.

He doesn't have the same luxury at test level. He gets the players sporadically for the odd weekend camp, but for most of the time they are back at super level being coached by the Richard Grahams and Michael Foleys of the world. He then has to mould these disparate forces into a coherent unit in quite a short time frame and then after 3 or 4 weeks, they go back to super rugby and then come back to Cheika again.

Not an excuse, but an observation that a different style is needed.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Has anyone with the playing credentials of Larkham or Thorn ever proven to be a good international coach?

*Ellas the exception that prove the rule

 

[Quick Hands]

My dream overnight:

I am Michael Cheika. I am the head coach of the Wallabies’ national rugby union team which has just been trounced by the NZ All Blacks on our home soil. This comes on top of a three test clean sweep by the English against us back in June. I have to do something drastic about our team and the way it plays the game to reignite some fan attachment and to plan for the future of this great game in our country.


Turning to the players, I admit that I was wrong to rely on players who had forsaken their obligations to our national team in favour of earning big bucks overseas. To that end, I will no longer be selecting these players unless and until they have signed with a Super Rugby franchise and the ARU. I will also be more demanding of them proving their worth over the talent playing in the country. I will, also, as far as is possible, select players who have the full range of skills required of the positions I want them for. Most importantly, I will now be making selection decisions with an eye to the future and especially the 2019 RWC. I will accept game losses, especially to those world beaters the All Blacks, while I develop and hone these new players into test worthy players, with the assistance of my newly appointed assistant coaches.

Immediately, I will replace players whose performance has been regularly underwhelming for the upcoming second test against NZ in Wellington. Quade Cooper, Samu Kerevi, Reece Hodge and Kellaway will come into the starting side for next week, as will James Slipper, TPN, Adam Coleman, Scott Fardy and Lopeti Timani. I will be bringing Tom Robertson, Rory Arnold (or Tom Staniforth), and McMahon onto the forwards bench, while Jonno Lance, and Henry Speight will be joining the bench to cover for the Backline.

The team makeup will be:

Folau, Kellaway, Kerevi, Hodge, DHP, Cooper, Genia, Timani, Pocock, Fardy, Coleman, Douglas, Kepu, TPN, Slipper, with Ready, Sio, Robertson, Arnold/Staniforth, McMahon, Phipps, Lance and Speight on the bench.

I lament the results we’ve achieved this year, but I am extremely confident that the young side I’ve brought into Saturday’s test will provide a sound basis for the re-emergence of the Wallabies as a world rugby power in the next year or two.

Don't necessarily agree with all of your selections, but you're on the right track.

You are 100% correct with the bit in bold.