Blues vs Reds, Sat 14 May, 2022. Eden Park.

[Dismal Pillock]

In conclusion, and to paraphrase Sir Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington: they came on in the same old fashion, so we loaded up the interplanetary rail gun and fired at the cnut's faces.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

To recruit a complete coach that ticks all the boxes in not a simple task. Thorn has done a tremendous job over the past four years, but you need to remember he wasn’t alone on this journey, and the status of the player’s contracts have reached their cycle. I’ll talk about the coaching first … Thorn was a rookie coach who was looking for support and guidance in his first couple of years. He had McKay and Ryan who influenced the decisions. COVID hit and Ryan was let go, which was a massive blow, and no one knew the impacts of that until now. It’s not just because of Ryan’s technical and tactical attributes, but more of the time spent with the players as a mentor for the way their brains worked, and he was the coach that had empathy and was approachable. Likewise, Corosa was this person in the group to some degree.
Secondly, the 4-year, low money contracts offered three to four years ago are playing havoc. The players that signed these contracts are realising their undervalue in comparison to others. Many have the Rugby Australia top up, but the ones that don’t are seeing the extended squad players getting more than the regular starters.
I’m going to be challenged on my next comment, being that there is some unrest in camp with regard to trust, unfavourable decisions and egos. I see the two influencing factors to be the makeup of the coaching staff and the fairness of the contracts. Thorn’s ego has got too big, and they need a coach like Ryan brought back in to balance the dynamics. Cordingley is going to need to be careful with this years and next year’s contract negotiations because there are a number of key players who may look at their options elsewhere.

For mine the Reds attack has got no "fizz". They are not challenging the defensive line and it is an easy set up to defend against with a little bit of research. Then there has been the over use of a "hail Mary" kicking program.
If it wasnt for a bit of halfback sniping ( McDermott and Thomas) and some individual "f$#k you" runs (Paisami and Petaia) the Reds attack would be given it's last rights.
This all hangs on the attack coach - McKay.
If we are looking to re-arrange the coaching team then I would suggest bringing in a tactical technician that can support Thorn as this is probably his weaker area.
To be brutally honest we should be looking at Mick Heenan. His record is phenomenal especially when you consider the turn over of players he has managed over the years. It appears to me that his calm methodical approach will compliment Thorn's "big hammer" robust delivery.

Just some food for thought.

 

[PhilClinton]

This all hangs on the attack coach - McKay.
If we are looking to re-arrange the coaching team then I would suggest bringing in a tactical technician that can support Thorn as this is probably his weaker area.
To be brutally honest we should be looking at Mick Heenan. His record is phenomenal especially when you consider the turn over of players he has managed over the years. It appears to me that his calm methodical approach will compliment Thorn's "big hammer" robust delivery.

Just some food for thought.

I am sure Thorn's weaknesses aren't lost on the QRU/Reds management team. I doubt they've got him sitting down with some crayons and paper drawing up the gameplan each week. So yes, McKay has to hold a great deal of blame with the lack of attacking flare.

I am not sure Heenan would leave his post at UQ, as many have pointed out he's had ample opportunity over the years to take things more professional but has been hesitant to do so, in which case I'm not sure a sinking Reds ship on the backend of some good years would be his moment to make the call.

I don't want Thorn dumped from the Reds, I think he's been too important to the culture and turnaround at the club. He's been a disruptor from the start and I feel removing him suddenly (or not so suddenly) could cause an even greater regression.

However, maybe it is time to move him into a 'Head of Coaching and Culture' type role. Still hands on with the team and staff, but removed from the game to game planning and training regime etc. of course I am not sure who would be the best coach to take over.

 

[Cancelled Account]

For mine the Reds attack has got no "fizz". They are not challenging the defensive line and it is an easy set up to defend against with a little bit of research. Then there has been the over use of a "hail Mary" kicking program.
If it wasnt for a bit of halfback sniping ( McDermott and Thomas) and some individual "f$#k you" runs (Paisami and Petaia) the Reds attack would be given it's last rights.
This all hangs on the attack coach - McKay.
If we are looking to re-arrange the coaching team then I would suggest bringing in a tactical technician that can support Thorn as this is probably his weaker area.
To be brutally honest we should be looking at Mick Heenan. His record is phenomenal especially when you consider the turn over of players he has managed over the years. It appears to me that his calm methodical approach will compliment Thorn's "big hammer" robust delivery.

Just some food for thought.

I don’t know anything about Heenan other than UQ’s success, so I can’t make comment on your recommendation.
Let’s not be too quick to dump a coach that has brought us some success (AU championship). If he had brought us the Super Rugby Pacific title then I would be definitely saying we need to keep him regardless.
We do need some “fizz”, or maybe ‘enthusiasm’ in our plays, and hope they are working on this for our last two games.

 

[Derpus]

Thorn is the most capped super rugby coach in qlds history. That was his 75th game in charge. This is his 5th year.

Thoughts on his tenure? I think he's completely turned them around and has been instrumental in developing some of Australia's best talent.

Does seem to have plateaud a bit, though. Particularly up against kiwis.

 

[LeCheese]

Thoughts on his tenure? I think he's completely turned them around and has been instrumental in developing some of Australia's best talent.

Does seem to have plateaud a bit, though. Particularly up against kiwis.

Agree fully. Possible issues with tactical nous aside, the work he’s done regarding the Reds’ culture is outstanding.

I don’t want to be the person making excuses, but I reckon the Reds would’ve walked away with at least two trans-Tasman wins if we had a full-strength (or close to it) side, and would’ve looked a hell of a lot sharper in the other two games. Obviously that’s not the reality, but the calls by some on here for his head seems like an incredibly knee-jerk response to a few disappointing performances.

 

[Up the Guts]

Agree fully. Possible issues with tactical nous aside, the work he’s done regarding the Reds’ culture is outstanding.

I don’t want to be the person making excuses, but I reckon the Reds would’ve walked away with at least two trans-Tasman wins if we had a full-strength (or close to it) side, and would’ve looked a hell of a lot sharper in the other two games. Obviously that’s not the reality, but the calls by some on here for his head seems like an incredibly knee-jerk response to a few disappointing performances.

Full strength Reds definitely win those Hurricanes and Highlanders games and I would argue also pick up at least one more against the Blues/Crusaders/Chiefs. Tough for Reds’ supporters to stomach the losses given how well the side was positioned going into the trans Tasman leg though.

 

[liquor box]

For mine the Reds attack has got no "fizz". They are not challenging the defensive line and it is an easy set up to defend against with a little bit of research. Then there has been the over use of a "hail Mary" kicking program.
If it wasnt for a bit of halfback sniping ( McDermott and Thomas) and some individual "f$#k you" runs (Paisami and Petaia) the Reds attack would be given it's last rights.
This all hangs on the attack coach - McKay.
If we are looking to re-arrange the coaching team then I would suggest bringing in a tactical technician that can support Thorn as this is probably his weaker area.
To be brutally honest we should be looking at Mick Heenan. His record is phenomenal especially when you consider the turn over of players he has managed over the years. It appears to me that his calm methodical approach will compliment Thorn's "big hammer" robust delivery.

Just some food for thought.

I really have no idea about how to set up attacking structure but from my observations we seem to play way to deep. if we manage to get to three passes we have usually gone back 10m so any good runs out wide only get us back to where we started from.

Good attacking teams play a lot flatter and you are making ground.

I realise that maybe our players skill sets don't allow for flat fast passing but this is what we should be aiming for.

 

[dillyboy]

I am sure Thorn's weaknesses aren't lost on the QRU/Reds management team. I doubt they've got him sitting down with some crayons and paper drawing up the gameplan each week. So yes, McKay has to hold a great deal of blame with the lack of attacking flare.

I am not sure Heenan would leave his post at UQ, as many have pointed out he's had ample opportunity over the years to take things more professional but has been hesitant to do so, in which case I'm not sure a sinking Reds ship on the backend of some good years would be his moment to make the call.

I don't want Thorn dumped from the Reds, I think he's been too important to the culture and turnaround at the club. He's been a disruptor from the start and I feel removing him suddenly (or not so suddenly) could cause an even greater regression.

However, maybe it is time to move him into a 'Head of Coaching and Culture' type role. Still hands on with the team and staff, but removed from the game to game planning and training regime etc. of course I am not sure who would be the best coach to take over.

Bring back Quade in a playing/attack coach.

I'm sure he & Brad could have a fantastic working relationship....

 

[emuarse]

A problem for the Reds is in their defense when NZ teams are in attack, they have their flyhalf grubber kick from around the 22 to 30 metre mark from the Reds try line. Our backs have moved up in defense, including our no 15 to mark their no 15. There is no one covering as a sweeper etc.
I'd have the Reds winger on the open side, or the full back, stay back near the try line to cover these grubber kicks.

 

[PhilClinton]

A problem for the Reds is in their defense when NZ teams are in attack, they have their flyhalf grubber kick from around the 22 to 30 metre mark from the Reds try line. Our backs have moved up in defense, including our no 15 to mark their no 15. There is no one covering as a sweeper etc.
I'd have the Reds winger on the open side, or the full back, stay back near the try line to cover these grubber kicks.

Yes and this was pointed out before the NZ games started.

The Reds were great at holding out the Aussie teams, even in games where we had 13/14 men on the field for long periods of time. But I think that is largely because the attack being offered wasn't overly thoughtful.

Now we are playing against teams who have a few strings to their bow. Interestingly though the other Aussie sides have managed to improve their attacking play and are troubling the kiwis. The Reds seem to be attacking like shite and also can't defend.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Blues 53
Reds 16

Blues: 53
Reds: 26