Brumbies 2014

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The issue he had though was his continued place in the team. A captain's place should never be in doubt and his would have been. For the record I thought he did a great job.

 

[Slim 293]

Chris Dutton made a good point in the Crimes.........

Mowen's departure will free up valuable salary-cap space as the Brumbies try to secure their roster for 2015 and beyond.

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/five-key-questions-for-brumbies-fans-after-ben-mowens-decision-20140109-30kmd.html#ixzz2puIQGVHD

 

[Slim 293]

The issue he had though was his continued place in the team.

This keeps getting mentioned , however........

1) Is Mowen's place in the team any less secure than say Horwill (incumbent captain - dropped), Genia (previous stand in captain - dropped), or even Pocock (previous captain - but can he replace Hooper?).

2) Apparently he wouldn't be picked if Higgers was available. However, despite Higgers' impressive Super Rugby form, Mowen has been a far better test player.

Having said that, I probably wouldn't pick Mowen in my first choice Wobs' back row, but that doesn't mean Link wouldn't............

 

[Slim 293]

Ben Mowen: Tough decision but right one for my family

​

January 10, 2014​

​

Ben Mowen​

Leaving the ACT Brumbies and Australian rugby is the hardest decision I've made in 10 years of rugby.

But as hard as it is to say goodbye, I know this is the right decision for my family.

I want to assure Brumbies fans it doesn't change my commitment to the club this year. I owe the Brumbies, their supporters and Canberra for what they have done for me and I want to leave here having contributed to a Super Rugby championship.

I am more hungry for success than I've ever been.

My football pathway brought me to Canberra and I'm thankful it did.

I bought a home in Woden. Eleanor, my first child, was born at Canberra Hospital. Canberra has become our home.

But the demands of international rugby meant I missed Ellie growing up and I don't want that to continue happening.

I was away from home for almost seven months of last year.

My wife Lauren and Ellie joined me at the end of the Spring Tour with the Wallabies, but if we have another child, we can no longer do that.

Being away so often, as enjoyable and successful as it was, meant Ellie was a different girl every time I came home.

I want to be with her for the important moments.

For 10 years, my family has put me and my rugby first. Now it's time to repay them by moving to France, without the travel demands of Super Rugby and a Wallabies campaign.

There has been plenty of change at the Brumbies in the past few months.

Since making the Super Rugby grand final, coach Jake White left to return to South Africa.

Our chief executive Andrew Fagan resigned after more than a decade in charge. We're moving from our traditional Griffith base to the University of Canberra.

But good leadership is never done by any one person. It is done by a team of people working behind the scenes sharing workload and success alike. We have that in bucket loads at the Brumbies and that is why I know the future of the club is in great hands. One bloke moves on and the next stands up.

Captaining the Brumbies was a massive honour for me and getting the chance to captain my country was a proud moment.

It is sad to be leaving. It will be hard to watch the Wallabies at next year's World Cup, but I will be on the edge of my seat cheering our boys home.

I really feel success is just around the corner for the Brumbies and Wallabies. But I believe it is always better to leave still loving the people and environment you are in rather than wanting out.

Thank you to the Brumbies and the fans for making that so.

We have a massive season ahead and will need all of Canberra behind us as as we aim to go one better and bring home the championship.


Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...r-my-family-20140109-30koj.html#ixzz2puRDJJym

 

[Ruggo]

Ben Mowen has balls of steel and integrity to boot.

You just can't help but admire the selflessness of the bloke. I like him as a rugby player but so much more as a human being.

All the best to him and his family because he bloody well deserves it.

 

[mudskipper]

What hasnt been stated here is Mowen has selflessly come out in the preseason and openly said he's plans for 2015. In doing so he has made it easier for both the Brumbies and the wallabies to plan ahead... Many players dont do this and are selfish to the last moment they step on the plane out of OZ, even later... He is a good honest guy, full of integrity...

As for him winning a starting spot in the wallabies 2014 the other players have to work harder and be injury free, I think Mowen has shown he is a 100% player... Guys like Higgers and Palu all have big question marks over their injuries history and form... Mowen can play equaly well both 8 and 6... Some others cant... Mowen is a 80 minute player with plenty and workload for an international No.8 thats bloody amazing...

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think it also gets forgotten in the hype of saying he just came back from his Wallaby debut season and captain, come the end of this Super Rugby season the bloke is pushing 30. He is basically getting to the age when players generally do make this move. He may be making this move perhaps a year earlier than many because simply as somebody previously put it, his star is brightest, and also he is off-contract at 29, not 30.

When you follow his career you can't not have a fair bit of respect for what the guy has managed to achieve after the struggles he has had to get to where he is. Certainly must have been discouraging to be an ex Aus Schoolboys captain and see the players he captained have their careers take off whilst bouncing from team to team to crack it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The issue he had though was his continued place in the team. A captain's place should never be in doubt and his would have been. For the record I thought he did a great job.

Ben's best form in the Wallabies was at No 6. He was rated very highly by GAGR posters after his games against the Lions. Remember how he monstered the No 9 in those games. At that point he was the stand out starting No 6 for Aus. It was really only after he was moved to 8 that people started doubting his position in the team. The emergence of Scott Fardy coincided with and was consequential to Ben's move to 8.

Now, if Higgers and Palu coma back to form and fitness, it is most likely they will be competing for the No 8 spot. Ben is still in the mix with Fardy for the No 6 spot. It is not too difficult to imagine Fardy moving to lock (where he plays for the Brumbies) either to start or during a game and in that case Ben would be the logical selection or replacement at 6. I, for one, don't see MMM playing at this level again. It seems to me that Ben's position in the Wallabies' game day 23 was still very much on the cards, and probably still is in 2014 given Link's comments. Sure, if he doesn't retain a starting spot, the captain's spot would go elsewhere.

One other thing comes out of this. When Ben no longer plays, Rob Simmon's spot will probably become more secure as the next best lineout caller. But at this stage, I wouldn't be too confident of either Simmons or Horwill retaining their starting spots into the RWC. I will be surprised if Hugh Pyle doesn't supplant Simmons sometime this year, and Big Kev really needs to get back to his form prior to injury. I can see Fardy, Skelton, Carter and Douglas all lining up to have a shot at his spot.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Ben's best form in the Wallabies was at No 6. He was rated very highly by GAGR posters after his games against the Lions. Remember how he monstered the No 9 in those games. At that point he was the stand out starting No 6 for Aus. It was really only after he was moved to 8 that people started doubting his position in the team. The emergence of Scott Fardy coincided with and was consequential to Ben's move to 8.

Now, if Higgers and Palu coma back to form and fitness, it is most likely they will be competing for the No 8 spot. Ben is still in the mix with Fardy for the No 6 spot. It is not too difficult to imagine Fardy moving to lock (where he plays for the Brumbies) either to start or during a game and in that case Ben would be the logical selection or replacement at 6. I, for one, don't see MMM playing at this level again. It seems to me that Ben's position in the Wallabies' game day 23 was still very much on the cards, and probably still is in 2014 given Link's comments. Sure, if he doesn't retain a starting spot, the captain's spot would go elsewhere.

One other thing comes out of this. When Ben no longer plays, Rob Simmon's spot will probably become more secure as the next best lineout caller. But at this stage, I wouldn't be too confident of either Simmons or Horwill retaining their starting spots into the RWC. I will be surprised if Hugh Pyle doesn't supplant Simmons sometime this year, and Big Kev really needs to get back to his form prior to injury. I can see Fardy, Skelton, Carter and Douglas all lining up to have a shot at his spot.

All fair points. Had Scott Fardy not become the obvious choice at 6 I think Ben would have been an almost walk up start there. Unfortunately for him though, Fardy had an immense season and has brought the kind of mongrel we've been wanting in the back row for a while. That leaves him battling it out with Higgers when he returns for the eight spot (and also Cliffy, but I think the big fella is past his best) and I think Higgers would probably carry the day there. I'm a fan of Ben and would love to see him stay, but a fully fit squad leaves his position as a starter in some doubt and I don't think you can have that in a captain.

 

[Train Without a Station]

One other thing comes out of this. When Ben no longer plays, Rob Simmon's spot will probably become more secure as the next best lineout caller. But at this stage, I wouldn't be too confident of either Simmons or Horwill retaining their starting spots into the RWC. I will be surprised if Hugh Pyle doesn't supplant Simmons sometime this year, and Big Kev really needs to get back to his form prior to injury. I can see Fardy, Skelton, Carter and Douglas all lining up to have a shot at his spot.

Mate where do you get this stuff from? Simmons unlikely to make the RWC on the back of his best international season to date? There's a reason Pyle has not even been in a Wallaby squad yet. The bloke is undoubtedly a better footballer than Simmons, however Simmons has performed better as a lock. Unless Pyle is looking to switch to outside centre, he's going to struggle to show he warrants a spot in the top XV in Australia right now.

Laurie Fisher has said that with the new scrum laws Fardy may be too small to play lock, so I don't see him taking Horwill's jersey. Skelton's got enough to worry about being a starter for the Waratahs yet, and even then, picking him would require picking a line out back row around him, so he'd have to be pretty fucking good to knock Horwill off. You pick Skelton, a mediocre jumper than there's no room for Palu in the team in that regard. Carter perhaps, but Douglas has gone backwards at international level since his debut, with the exception of his cameo in the England game, so I'm not sure what basis he is likely to take a starting jersey. In addition Horwill's form and effectiveness really improved as the Spring Tour progressed as he is shaking off injuries, if he gets his aggressiveness in contact back this year he will be back where he was.

So in summary, I don't see too much merit in the prospect of Horwill and Simmons being displaced in the starting team in the next year by a guy who is provincial coach thinks is too small for lock now, a guy who has not improved since his whilst Simmons has significantly in 2013 (Douglas), and 3 blokes who are yet to even make a Wallabies training squad.

 

[Train Without a Station]

All fair points. Had Scott Fardy not become the obvious choice at 6 I think Ben would have been an almost walk up start there. Unfortunately for him though, Fardy had an immense season and has brought the kind of mongrel we've been wanting in the back row for a while. That leaves him battling it out with Higgers when he returns for the eight spot (and also Cliffy, but I think the big fella is past his best) and I think Higgers would probably carry the day there. I'm a fan of Ben and would love to see him stay, but a fully fit squad leaves his position as a starter in some doubt and I don't think you can have that in a captain.

There's no way I could see a starting Wallabies back row of Fardy, Mowen and Pocock. For the way that Link has spoken about the Wallabies playing, this would lack the balance required to execute that. When you consider Link favoured Hooper over Gill, it must have been due to his far superior attacking game. In that backrow, Fardy who is considered a bit of a ruck monster is probably the strongest attacking player. Works well with the Brumbies style of play, but not the way the Wallabies played at the back end of 2013.

Funnily enough probably really would have suited the Wallabies under Deans, however he never entertained the prospect.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Mate where do you get this stuff from? Simmons unlikely to make the RWC on the back of his best international season to date? There's a reason Pyle has not even been in a Wallaby squad yet. The bloke is undoubtedly a better footballer than Simmons, however Simmons has performed better as a lock. Unless Pyle is looking to switch to outside centre, he's going to struggle to show he warrants a spot in the top XV in Australia right now.

Laurie Fisher has said that with the new scrum laws Fardy may be too small to play lock, so I don't see him taking Horwill's jersey. Skelton's got enough to worry about being a starter for the Waratahs yet, and even then, picking him would require picking a line out back row around him, so he'd have to be pretty fucking good to knock Horwill off. You pick Skelton, a mediocre jumper than there's no room for Palu in the team in that regard. Carter perhaps, but Douglas has gone backwards at international level since his debut, with the exception of his cameo in the England game, so I'm not sure what basis he is likely to take a starting jersey. In addition Horwill's form and effectiveness really improved as the Spring Tour progressed as he is shaking off injuries, if he gets his aggressiveness in contact back this year he will be back where he was.

So in summary, I don't see too much merit in the prospect of Horwill and Simmons being displaced in the starting team in the next year by a guy who is provincial coach thinks is too small for lock now, a guy who has not improved since his whilst Simmons has significantly in 2013 (Douglas), and 3 blokes who are yet to even make a Wallabies training squad.

RWC is two Super seasons away. In the normal course, injuries and form slumps will occur and could possibly affect the makeup of the 2nd row. If either of Simmons or Horwill suffer form slumps there are others who can take their places. As I said, I am not confident that they will be the starting locks at RWC, but given their fitness they will start in the 2014 tests. Most at risk is Rob Simmons in my view because I expect Pyle to show in 2014 that he is a better lock and he also has the lineout capability that Simmons brings.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There's no way I could see a starting Wallabies back row of Fardy, Mowen and Pocock. For the way that Link has spoken about the Wallabies playing, this would lack the balance required to execute that. When you consider Link favoured Hooper over Gill, it must have been due to his far superior attacking game. In that backrow, Fardy who is considered a bit of a ruck monster is probably the strongest attacking player. Works well with the Brumbies style of play, but not the way the Wallabies played at the back end of 2013.

Funnily enough probably really would have suited the Wallabies under Deans, however he never entertained the prospect.

I don't disagree that a back row of Fardy, Mowen and Pocock would be unlikely to start for the Wallabies in 2014. With both Higgers and Palu back in the running for 8, Ben would only have been considered for 6 in my opinion.

However, I can't see the justification for saying that Fardy's style of play didn't suit the Wallabies at the back end of 2013. That was the only period since Adam was a boy that the Wallabies strung four wins on the trot together and Scott Fardy was voted the player of the series/year by GAGR posters. If he is fit at the time, I fully expect he will start at 6 in 2014 (unless he is moved to lock) regardless of which of Higgers or Palu (or possibly Aeulua) starts at 8, and I expect they will complement each other's play precisely how Link wants them to.

 

[Ruggo]

I think Link favored Hooper to compensate for the running game that was missing without Higgers. Fardy plays fairly tight so he was able to use his seven a bit differently. We don't wan't to lose that tightness and a 6,7 combo of Fardy and Pocock will provide that well. Finish the back row with Higgers at 8 and he balances out the trio with the running game. I enjoyed the tightness of his game this year but he does excel in the wider channels and is a bloody good support player. I think it is these skills that will be looked for from him in a Wallaby role. He will play kind of a Kieren Reid type role in combining both styles of play. If all are fit, I think that could be the Wallaby rack row we see.

 

[gel]

Fardy, Pocock and Higgers (supposing they are all fit) would be my preference I think.

*edit: pretty much what @Ruggo said whilst I made my cup of tea before hitting post :/

 

[Hawko]

I think Link favored Hooper to compensate for the running game that was missing without Higgers. Fardy plays fairly tight so he was able to use his seven a bit differently. We don't wan't to lose that tightness and a 6,7 combo of Fardy and Pocock will provide that well. Finish the back row with Higgers at 8 and he balances out the trio with the running game. I enjoyed the tightness of his game this year but he does excel in the wider channels and is a bloody good support player. I think it is these skills that will be looked for from him in a Wallaby role. He will play kind of a Kieren Reid type role in combining both styles of play. If all are fit, I think that could be the Wallaby rack row we see.

A backrow of Fardy, Palu and Hooper is similarly well balanced. Palu and Fardy in tight, Hooper to use his running game looser. Palu nearly won the JEM this year after only playing half the games everyone else did. Voted by the players who are likely to know better than us grandstanders. People write him off because he's injury-prone, but before he got injured in Lions 3 he had played the full EOYT and 18 rounds of Super plus three Lions tests. He's not nearly as fragile as people would have you believe. He will be the incumbent Wallaby 8 before the test team is selected, yet people insist that Higgers is the player we need on the basis of 16 rounds of Super before he did his shoulder. His play at test level to date has been adequate at best.

When the selectors finally get down to it and if everyone is fit (an unlikely scenario), then I suspect they will look at two combinations - Pocock and Higgers vs Hooper and Palu. Higgers and Hooper gives you too loose a backrow, Pocock and Palu not enough running. It will all be about who's still fit, who's got the form and how to get the best balance of roles.

 

[Hawko]

Having just posted a long diatribe here, it occurs to me that this discussion has bugger all to do with the Brumbies 2014 thread. Perhaps a mod could transfer all the offending posts onto a more appropriate thread.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Having just posted a long diatribe here, it occurs to me that this discussion has bugger all to do with the Brumbies 2014 thread. Perhaps a mod could transfer all the offending posts onto a more appropriate thread.

But for the Brumbies, I am really looking forward to how a Mowen, Pocock, Aeulua backrow performs this year. Substitute Fardy for Mowen and we could have the Wallabies' backrow if neither Higgers nor Palu come up after injury.

 

[Ruggo]

Having just posted a long diatribe here, it occurs to me that this discussion has bugger all to do with the Brumbies 2014 thread. Perhaps a mod could transfer all the offending posts onto a more appropriate thread.

I'll wear the blame for that one. I thought I posted my bit on the Wallaby back row in the "no Ben Mowen thread" and not till I finished the post realised my stuff up.

 

[Brumbieman]

RE Mowen being a better 6 than 8: remember that this neck injury he had, he got after those first few awesome tests. He then lost a lot of power and confidence, just as he moved to 8, and we saw him slowly regaining it on the tour as he recovered.

He'd have been a damn good 8 for us, and i'm devastated he's leaving, he's a massive, massive lost to the Wallabies and Brumbies. Anyone who thinks his position was under threat this year is off their rocker.

Palu and Higgers are both very injury prone and the chances of getting them both fit, and fully in form, in gold, are somewhere between Buckley's and fuck all.

Fortunately, Fardy has owned the 6 jersey since stepping into it, so all we need now is a test quality 8.