Bulls vs Waratahs, 2011R16

[cyclopath]

I think they both have issues here. If headbutting has been decreed a red card offence by SANZAR or anyone else (I don't know if it is), then both Joubert and the AR should know that. The way Joubert responded, saying "You mean Red card?" implies this is the tacit understanding. The AR then bottled it, umm-ing and aah-ing in obvious uncertainty about the whole thing, then decided to save face by saying "Definitely". If red card is not automatic, then why the hell was Joubert implying it was, for something he has not seen, and his only help available clearly does not fully believe? Just too much inconsistency in my mind. I wish the ARs would spend more time alerting the ref to offsides, forward passes and such, rather than looking for "Getting My Fat Head on TV" opportunities, sometimes.
From what I saw on the clip, had O'Connor been penalised for a reckless clean out with head contact, I doubt anyone would argue. Maybe even a yellow card, at a streeeeettttch.
Anyway, lest this thread descend into another ref-bashing I'll leave it there, as it seems the Tahs had opportunity to win it, and this was not necessarily game-defining.

 

[RedsHappy]

....Anyway, lest this thread descend into another ref-bashing I'll leave it there....

Please God, not more ref-bashing and 'we wos robbed'. IMO, over time, it really starts to spoil the constructive analysis and fun-to-be-here-vibe that is the very best of what GAGR is, and should always be. Thanks for the guidance Cyclo.

 

[MrTimms]

NEWS RELEASE

WARATAHS LOCKS TO FACE SANZAR JUDICIARY

Waratahs locks Pat O'Connor and Kane McBride will face SANZAR Judicial Hearings in Pretoria on Saturday following two seperate incidents in the Super Rugby match against the Bulls at Loftus Versfeld on Friday evening.

O'Connor faces a mandatory hearing after receiving a red card for a head butt after an Assistant Referee's report in the 67th minute of the match.

Mc Bride has been cited for an alleged contravention of Foul Play Law 10.4 (e) dangerous tackling of a player above the shoulders and around the neck; and law 10.4 (m) an act contrary to good sportsmanship.

The citing relates to an incident in the 38th minute of the match in which McBride executed a dangerous tackle on Bulls centre Wynand Olivier. McBride is alleged to have grabbed Olivier in a headlock and flipped him over, placing his head and neck at risk. The lock was penalised by the match referee for the incident.

The hearings are scheduled to commence at Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria at 10h00 (18h00 EST/20h00 NZ) and will be chaired by SANZAR Judicial Officer, Jannie Lubbe SC.

The Waratahs are due to leave South Afriica for Australia on Saturday evening.

Ends

Sent from my Android using Tapatalk

 

[cyclopath]

Who is Kane McBride?

 

[Scarfman]

SANZAR being super-competent once again.

Kane McBride is actually a ref.

If I was Kane Douglas's lawyer I would refuse to appear.

 

[barbarian]

That's fortunate for Kane Douglas, looks like his incident went unnoticed!

 

[Lindommer]

I fail to see how (stupidly) leading with the head when cleaning out a ruck and hitting an opponent in the chest can warrant any sort of sanction. Happens every game, "striking" an opponent with the head.

 

[Richo]

At least we only needed to win one game in SA.

Oh.

 

[Hawko]

Is that even possible? Can someone throw in some two bobs who knows more about contracts and all that.

Although Shute might be a better option anyway!

I'd take a prop from Uni 4ths before either of those two on their performances this year.

 

[Gnostic]

It amazes me that Hickey waits until the last, the absolute last opportunity to play a game plan with more width and structure attack from the backs. The problem being they have not executed this game plan at any other stage of the year and are always under pressure when they tried last night. The fact that they opperated the whole thing 15 netres behind the advantage line exacerbated their probelms. The issues with poor passing from scrum half continued with no ball to the backs being hit at pace and most travelling well above shoulder height to static players who then had to try and pick up pace to meet an solid Bulls defensive line.

The Tahs forwards did a great job IMO winning an amazing amount of good quality ball that no one had any idea of how to use.

Another season is over for the Tahs, predictably so, and I hope that this leads to the massive cleanout required and we see the back of Hickey and anybody else unable to see the facts that the stats they have relied upon and their mode of play in trying not to lose and minimising points against them has again led them to this point.

 

[Tank]

Who is Kane McBride?

Perhaps Kane is actually a love child of Willie John McBride???

anyone remember that tennis player from the early 2000's - Alexandra Stevenson.

Her father was actually Dr J, Julius Erving and the world only found out after the reached the Semis at Wimbledon.

 

[qwerty51]

The issues with poor passing from scrum half continued with no ball to the backs being hit at pace and most travelling well above shoulder height to static players who then had to try and pick up pace to meet an solid Bulls defensive line.

I thought Burgess' service was very good last night.

The backline becomes underpressure when there's a forward in the backline looking to distribute and not run forward with the ball.

 

[Hawko]

Just watched the full game recorded from last night. There's a few points not covered yet I think:

1. I thought all the bad luck went the Tahs way. Four key players injured, one try held up over the line, several breaks just stopped by a wisker, only two breaks by the Bulls and both led to tries. With more breaks and half-breaks normally you'd be in front, but it just didn't happen.
2. No one should doubt the Tahs spirit or effort in that game. It made me proud to be a Tahs supporter.
3. That we might still be 6th after this round with the luck we've had with injury. Of the first choice 22 only Fuse, Mumm, Dennis, Carter and Burgess have not had major injury and there are still two rounds to play before the finals. This is a worse run than the Force had in 2009, which was just about the all time injury pinnacle.
4. I thought Barnes operating at 12 and Carter at 13 went really well with Beale behind them. Hangers at 10 made some beautiful long passes and his running game was incisive.
5. The forwards were magnificent, as were the Bulls. I thought the forward battle was pretty equal and its clear both teams' forwards were top 4 quality.
6. Beale was immense tonight, on his night he is clearly now the worlds best 15and he responded to his average game last week with a sublime display of attacking rugby. Our WC hopes just went up a few degrees. We will miss him next year.
7. TPN is coming back into form, several good breaks that almost produced tries. We need to position a dynamic runner just off his shoulder so he can off-load to get the full benefit.

Sad to lose, and still not disgraced. Looking at the form of the Clan and Sharks I think we will still make the six and play the Stormers in the semi. If some of the wounded don't make a dramatic recovery though, that will be the end of it.

 

[Blue]

Can't add much other than the Bulls have largely fixed their defense over the last few weeks. There's lots to be taken from the game for us but I won't bore anyone with my analysis on the Bulls. The Tahs spend an awful amount of time running sideline to sideline. Nobody except Beale and TPN know how to run an angle. There is very little variety in the attack. Anyhoo.

The head butt card was totally over the top. However, if you are drilling down head first on a man being held down by another player (Mumm had Flip vdM around the neck), then you have no intention but to cause damage and donlteven bother trying to convince me otherwise. There is no other reason to enter a ruck away from the ball like that. But, no fucking way that's a red.

[RANT WARNING]
If the overall SARU judiciary and disciplinary processes made up a business, it would have been fucking bankrupt by now, the CEO thrown in jail for corruption, the CFO fled to an uncharted island, and shareholders would have stormed and pillaged the company HQ.

At this point as far as on-field and post-match sanctioning is concerned there is no clear strategy, no proper process, woeful implementation and obviously no employee training. Pro Legoeta clearly did not know what to say. Joubert did not know how to respond. They should be at a level where the ref asks almost a scripted question and there can only be a set number of answers given back and there should NEVER, EVER be ambiguity, as we saw last night. (which incidentally kept Burger on the field against the Lions).

SARU should invest in a disciplinary officer who works wit the ref management and draws up a plan, process, training regime, and proper fucking review system because what we have now is a shambles and I for one am NOT blaming the refs and linesmen. They are under massive pressure on-field and when you have pressure in ANY system, you need PROCESS to fall back on else the thing goes to shit.

Its NOT rocket science.

[Rant over.]

I love my team. That is all.

 

[Hawko]

Can't add much other than the Bulls have largely fixed their defense over the last few weeks. There's lots to be taken from the game for us but I won't bore anyone with my analysis on the Bulls. The Tahs spend an awful amount of time running sideline to sideline. Nobody except Beale and TPN know how to run an angle. There is very little variety in the attack. Anyhoo.

The head butt card was totally over the top. However, if you are drilling down head first on a man being held down by another player (Mumm had Flip vdM around the neck), then you have no intention but to cause damage and donlteven bother trying to convince me otherwise. There is no other reason to enter a ruck away from the ball like that. But, no fucking way that's a red.

[RANT WARNING]
If the overall SARU judiciary and disciplinary processes made up a business, it would have been fucking bankrupt by now, the CEO thrown in jail for corruption, the CFO fled to an uncharted island, and shareholders would have stormed and pillaged the company HQ.

At this point as far as on-field and post-match sanctioning is concerned there is no clear strategy, no proper process, woeful implementation and obviously no employee training. Pro Legoeta clearly did not know what to say. Joubert did not know how to respond. They should be at a level where the ref asks almost a scripted question and there can only be a set number of answers given back and there should NEVER, EVER be ambiguity, as we saw last night. (which incidentally kept Burger on the field against the Lions).

SARU should invest in a disciplinary officer who works wit the ref management and draws up a plan, process, training regime, and proper fucking review system because what we have now is a shambles and I for one am NOT blaming the refs and linesmen. They are under massive pressure on-field and when you have pressure in ANY system, you need PROCESS to fall back on else the thing goes to shit.

Its NOT rocket science.

[Rant over.]

I love my team. That is all.

I agree 100% with your rant.

Both teams did their supporters proud last night. It was great, high intensity rugby and I was on the edge of my seat for the whole match. Just when I expected the Tahs to fold, they lifted and then the Bulls lifted too. We've lost the last two at Loftus but each time I thought they were great games played with great intensity and spirit.

 

[Gnostic]

I thought Burgess' service was very good last night.

The backline becomes underpressure when there's a forward in the backline looking to distribute and not run forward with the ball.

Better go and have another look. The Tahs actually tried to play some backline moves last night, finally, and I would applaud them for it. But, they played so far behind the advantage line the loops and running they did barely got to that line. Beale was the only one who got over the advantage line and that was through individual skills and not contrived play. The Reds run backline plays at the advantage line and looping players actually take defenders out of the line, the Tahs loops and passes were so far behind the line the Bulls just moved onto the new carrier.

My point is that the Tahs have not played with any backline moves such as these all year, and it has been the root of my criticism of him that the Tahs mode of play has been so narrow and negative. The fact is that now at the end of the season the Tahs do not have the capacity to play any other way and that is solely Hickey's failing.

Many will blame the injury rate but that is a furphy, every team has had injury issues. The Reds lost Hynes, Ioane for a time, Morahan, Harris, Davies and yet their backline has continued to function and IMO actually improved with new players coming in. The Crusaders well they lost their entire backline with the exception of Carter and even some of the back-ups have been broken and they have also continued to execute well. Hickey has failed to develop any full game plan and the squad depth has been tested by injury and found wanting ion comparison as I said with other teams who have faced similar crisis.

 

[qwerty51]

I still don't know why you're blaming Burgess.

The Tahs played like the Reds backline last night but where unable to execute like the Reds and that's because of the difference of speed between the players. Cooper runs the ball at the line and then passes. Barnes/Halanghu don't have enough speed to do this, likewise Carter doesn't have enough speed to do this either. We need faster centres. There's obviously a remarkable difference when Horne is in the team, the backline functioned very well in the first two rounds. We need to find a replacement for him.

 

[Gnostic]

Simply because Burgess cannot pass to hit a moving target. Even his passes to static targets go above the shoulder or behind the player. All of that was executed with almost perfect ball. The pigs did a huge job and Burgess had an enormous amount of relatively fast clean ball and he was well protected around the rucks in general, and still the passes were not accurate. This is his fundamental skill and he is poor at it.

It is really an indictment on Hickey that Burgess who has been in the Tahs starting side for so long has not improved in this aspect. It also shows that Burgess' is there not for his skills in passing and definitely not kicking from hand, but for his defence. I still rate Burgess as perhaps the best defending 9 in the world, it is just a pity that he has not capacity feeding a backline in motion.

The lack of speed as you put it is a bit of a falalcy, the fact that they were static 15 metres behind the gain line made the Bulls look faster than they were. The fact that the passes from Burgess made the receiver reach up or back for the ball almost every time slowed them even fruther.

 

[Hawko]

I still don't know why you're blaming Burgess.

The Tahs played like the Reds backline last night but where unable to execute like the Reds and that's because of the difference of speed between the players. Cooper runs the ball at the line and then passes. Barnes/Halanghu don't have enough speed to do this, likewise Carter doesn't have enough speed to do this either. We need faster centres. There's obviously a remarkable difference when Horne is in the team, the backline functioned very well in the first two rounds. We need to find a replacement for him.

Its every Shute coach's dream to find another Horne in their ranks. Unfortunately they're all still looking for him.

 

[MrTimms]

Knuckleheads... Well spotted everybody...

Please note the news release sent earlier incorrectly identified Waratahs lock Kane Douglas.

A corrected version is attached.

Apologies for the error


4 June 2011

NEWS RELEASE


WARATAHS LOCKS TO FACE SANZAR JUDICIARY

Waratahs locks Pat O'Connor and Kane Douglas will face SANZAR Judicial Hearings in Pretoria on Saturday following two seperate incidents in the Super Rugby match against the Bulls at Loftus Versfeld on Friday evening.

O'Connor faces a mandatory hearing after receiving a red card for a head butt after an Assistant Referee's report in the 67th minute of the match.

Douglas has been cited for an alleged contravention of Foul Play Law 10.4 (e) dangerous tackling of a player above the shoulders and around the neck; and law 10.4 (m) an act contrary to good sportsmanship.

The citing relates to an incident in the 38th minute of the match in which Douglas executed a dangerous tackle on Bulls centre Wynand Olivier. Douglas is alleged to have grabbed Olivier in a headlock and flipped him over, placing his head and neck at risk. The lock was penalised by the match referee for the incident.

The hearings are scheduled to commence at Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria at 10h00 (18h00 EST/20h00 NZ) and will be chaired by SANZAR Judicial Officer, Jannie Lubbe SC.

The Waratahs are due to leave South Afriica for Australia on Saturday evening.

Ends

Issued by SANZAR