CAS expansion

[Hell West & Crooked]

Mate, the link with Wests was frowned upon. I know cause I was more or less it, along with a really fine player, Paul Cundy who ended up turning out for Balmain. It was all good in 77 when I played for Pats firsts then I got crook at the start of 78 and a bunch of mongrels at the school thought it was bungin' it on so I cld play grade for the Maggies. It got intense cause a few Wests officials started turning up to first XV training in 78. The coach in 78 was Brother Evans who later topped himself having been accused of fiddling with kids. Obviously he had a real hands-on approach . not sure he was much of a coach. It was a fine team, although I still think the 77 side, much less successful than 78, was one of the best footy sides I played with. Matt Williams, the former NSW coach was a intelligent, though appallingly slow centre in the 77 team. He was a terrific flanker playing out of position.

No it wasn't Evans I was referring to as a good coach - (I thought he started in '79. I stand corrected) - He was pretty orinary - in many ways. No it was another Brother - didn't he come down from Goulbourn, or somewhere bush? Wasn't it the '77 side the one with Trueman in the backs, and a couple of very good Year 11 Flankers... I would suggest '77 was one of their best teams on record...

Did you go on to play at Senior Level at all?

 

[Harv]

No it wasn't Evans I was referring to as a good coach - (I thought he started in '79. I stand corrected) - He was pretty orinary - in many ways. No it was another Brother - didn't he come down from Goulbourn, or somewhere bush? Wasn't it the '77 side the one with Trueman in the backs, and a couple of very good Year 11 Flankers. I would suggest '77 was one of their best teams on record.

Did you go on to play at Senior Level at all?

Evans was coach in 78. Not sure who was coach in 79, but it might have been McNamara, who marshalled a very good 16s side a few years before. I'm Truman and I played in 77 and some of 78 but I started the year crook, oh, and I got into strife for playing league. Warren Boyd was terrific flanker in 77 and 78. We played reps in 77 for TCS, but we didn't have a rep opportunity in 78 cause of the demise of the TCS. Pats 77 side also had Bill Clarke who was a really fine centre who later foolishly chose medicine over footy. Go figure. I kicked on a bit, league and a bit of union but I was still crook -- rock n roll and girls kicked in too.

 

[DaSchmooze]

This thread has proved intriguing reading. I knew of the sectarianism from Knox that had blocked our acceptance into the CAS but wasn't as well versed in Waverley's treachery! I suppose it shows you can only have one group of boofheads per school association! Always assumed it was Trinity!!!

What I can comment on is how that affected St Pat's in the aftermath. I started there in 85 and played Rugby from 86. We'd regularly beat Trinity, Knox and Barker and would usually demolish Aloys. As kids we couldn't understand why we weren't allowed to play these guys in regular competition as it was obvious to us at the time that we would be a perfect fit. There was a lot of time and money put into the Rugby program but we always felt we were a bit at sea come the end of the year. Add to that some disgraceful behaviour exhibited to us from parents of protestant kids for reason none other "that we were 'lics" and it had a pretty lasting effect on us all.

 

[It is what it is]

Waverley is Catholic so I doubt how that would play any role in determining whether or not they should be allowed to join the CAS.

Terry, please contact Ewen McKenzie asap for tight head role.

 

[richard powell]

just a few facts about 1978 and 1979 CAS rugby.

let me start by letting you know that i played for Aloys in these years. For mine you could ask anyone from that time who won the "comp" and everyone i know thought (and i think rightly) that Aloys won the "comp" in '79.

At the start of the 1978 season we were informed St Pius and St Pats would be included in the CAS rounds and like every other CAS school we treated these games as equal to any other CAS game. In '78 we won against Trinity,Barker,Cranbrook and Knox lost to Waverley (i don't think i ever won a game gainst Waverley)_and 12 all draw against Pats and lost to a really hard and aggressive St Pius who were to good for us. At the end of the season, whilst it was a good one, we knew we had not won the comp because of the draw with St Pats and the loss to St Pius. To be told many years later that these games did not count seems to me quite ridiculous and then to further learn that the "title" (as per the official CAS website) had been awarded to Aloys retrospectively was crazy. As a point of interest Rod Homan was the only Aloys guy in the CAS 1sts so i am pretty sure the CAS selectors did not think we were the winners.

In 1979 as has been pointed out previously we lost to a very good Waverley side 12-6 on the bell. It proved to be our only loss for the year after good pre-season wins over Riverview, Joeys, Kings and an 11 all draw with Newington who went on to win the GPS comp that year. Again i can tell you that every team considered the Pats and Pius games to be part of the comp and the table appeared every week in programmes with these games counted. We were crowned the CAS winners in "Rugby News" and went on to have 5 CAS 1sts reps and beat GPS 24-12 at Chatswood. I had good mates from Waverley (Mark Jackman and Andrew Ugarte) who had congradulated the Aloys boys on the win. To be told retrospectively that the games against Pats and Pius no longer counted and that the "premiership" had been redirected to Waverley to me seems to be a nonsense. The comp was what it was and to change it many years later is wrong.

Anyway I am lucky that I was involved in the '78 win but everyone from my era will always consider '79 as the Year Aloys "won the comp"

 

[White line fever]

Hi Dick,

The Aloys 1979 was the best team we (Waverley) played in that year for sure, and we also played many of the GPS schools.

I had a good mate in the Aloys team, Stephen Cahill and also played cricket against many of you guys, including you, a great bunch of guys!

I think we will have to disagree who won, but for what it is worth, we didn't even play St Pius that year, and I think nor did some other CAS schools.

There has only ever been 6 CAS schools, never heard of 2 others suddenly being introduced in that year, if they were, why didn't we play them.

But let's all be happy!

The rugby score was in fact 10-6, 2 tries to nil.

DH.

 

[richard powell]

Hi Dick,

The Aloys 1979 was the best team we (Waverley) played in that year for sure, and we also played many of the GPS schools.

I had a good mate in the Aloys team, Stephen Cahill and also played cricket against many of you guys, including you, a great bunch of guys!

I think we will have to disagree who won, but for what it is worth, we didn't even play St Pius that year, and I think nor did some other CAS schools.

There has only ever been 6 CAS schools, never heard of 2 others suddenly being introduced in that year, if they were, why didn't we play them.

But let's all be happy!

The rugby score was in fact 10-6, 2 tries to nil.

DH.

 

[richard powell]

yea no doubt Waverley were too good for us. I just thought i would express a view and as its 30 bloody years ago it might be time for me to move on. And if you are the DH who i think you are , you were a very good footballer and a good bloke.
Anyway, good times to remember either way .

P.S i'm glad you mentioned Steve Cahill. I saw him recently and your comments just reminded me of what a very good winger he was.

 

[White line fever]

Dick,

I think you are probably right, ask V. Carmo at Bilgola a great mate of mine and yours!

Initials DH, year 1979 lives in Clovelly! He often mentions you!

Funny to bump into you this way, say hi to Stephen when you next see him, we went to primary school Holy Cross together, and he was a bloody good winger.

You never know we might all catch up for a beer 1 day, and yeh you can bring Carmo.

 

[richard powell]

great idea ....... all the best mate

 

[White line fever]

P.S. We went up to Newington to watch your game.

Besides all the blues (no names) you guys were robbed!

It should not have been a draw!

 

[richard powell]

its funny you know because years later i ended up playing cricket with a guy named Luke Muttdon who played fullback for Newington that day (NSW 2's) and we have laughed many times about just how brutal that game was. Dave McAleer was in the back of an amulance after 2 mins and I was marking the world's biggest centre who basdically scared the shit out of me. (par for the course). Anyway somehow we all survived to tell the tale.

 

[White line fever]

That biggest centre is a mate of Carmo's and mine!
Nickname Mungo (appropriate)

He did start it all but you didn't back down, so talk it up!

 

[red son]

This is my recollection of what happened in those years. There was consideration of increasing the membership of the CAS in the early1980s but it never took place.

Between 1978-1983, St Patrick's College, Strathfield and St Pius X College, Chatswood took part in the CAS "rugby programme" although not members of the CAS.

If SPC & SPX results are taken into account, the winners of the competition would have been:
1978 Knox & St Pius X (Knox & SPX Won 4 Lost 2 Drew 1)
1979 St Aloysius' College (St Aloysius Won 6 Lost 1)
1980 Waverley & Barker (Waverley & Barker Won 6 Lost 1)
1981 Waverley College (Waverley undefeated Won 7 Lost 0)
1982 Cranbrook School (Cranbrook undefeated Won 7 Lost 0)
1983 Waverley College

However as time went by the CAS "winners" for those years seemed to have reverted to only considering the results of the games played between the 6 CAS schools.

If matches only between CAS schools are taken into account the winners were:
1978 St Aloysius' College & Barker (St.Aloysius & Barker Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 1)
1979 Waverley College (Won 4 Drew 1)
1980 Barker, Trinity & Waverley (Won 4 Drew 1)
1981 Waverley College (Won 5 Lost 0)
1982 Cranbrook School (Won 5 Lost 0)

1983 Waverley College

 

[White line fever]

This is my recollection of what happened in those years. There was consideration of increasing the membership of the CAS in the early1980s but it never took place.

Between 1978-1983, St Patrick's College, Strathfield and St Pius X College, Chatswood took part in the CAS "rugby programme" although not members of the CAS.

If SPC & SPX results are taken into account, the winners of the competition would have been:
1978 Knox & St Pius X (Knox & SPX Won 4 Lost 2 Drew 1)
1979 St Aloysius' College (St Aloysius Won 6 Lost 1)
1980 Waverley & Barker (Waverley & Barker Won 6 Lost 1)
1981 Waverley College (Waverley undefeated Won 7 Lost 0)
1982 Cranbrook School (Cranbrook undefeated Won 7 Lost 0)
1983 Waverley College

However as time went by the CAS "winners" for those years seemed to have reverted to only considering the results of the games played between the 6 CAS schools.

If matches only between CAS schools are taken into account the winners were:
1978 St Aloysius' College & Barker (St.Aloysius & Barker Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 1)
1979 Waverley College (Won 4 Drew 1)
1980 Barker, Trinity & Waverley (Won 4 Drew 1)
1981 Waverley College (Won 5 Lost 0)
1982 Cranbrook School (Won 5 Lost 0)

1983 Waverley College

Red Son,

The only problem with this analysis is that some teams in 1979 didn't even play St.Pius, I know Waverley certainly didn't, and the same applies for the other years quoted,so using the first group of schools is hypothetical.

 

[red son]

Red Son,

The only problem with this analysis is that some teams in 1979 didn't even play St.Pius, I know Waverley certainly didn't, and the same applies for the other years quoted,so using the first group of schools is hypothetical.

Sorry to gently correct you but in those year (1978-83) there was a full round of 7 games including St Pats and St Pius. I have the scores for most of these games.

In 1979, Waverley did play St Pius on Saturday 16 June at Queens Park and won 32-4. St Pius was scheduled to play Barker on 23 June at Chatswood but the game did not go ahead (don't know why). You have to remember that the CAS competition was "unofficial" at that time. It was only in 1989 that the Plume Shield was reintroduced. So I'm guessing the game wasn't needed to be replayed.

By the way my interest in CAS rugby is because I am a Waverley old boy.

 

[White line fever]

Hi Red Son,

I will take you word for it.
I was in the Waverley 79 side, I remember every game we played both here and in Brisbane (Gregory Terrace and Nudgee), but I do not remember even playing St Pius or even their colours!

Must have been concussed, as Dick says it was just a few years ago!

 

[red son]

Always good to remember the good old days.
By the way St Pius colours were blue and gold. They were a pretty good side in 1977 and 78. Both them and St Pats had played in The Combined Schools association (TCS) which consisted of 6 catholic schools most of whom are now playing in ISA. St Pats had dominated this comp for a lot of its years (1969 to 1977) but St Pius won it in 1977. For some reason TCS closed and as we have been discussing St Pats and St Pius played with the CAS schools for the next six years although not members.
Had their results counted St Pius would have won (jointly) in 1978 The participation of the 2 extra schools only really impacted on the 1978 and 1979 CAS seasons in that St Aloysius were winners in either 1978 or 79 (but not both) depending on which results counted.
My feeling is that one reason the results were changed retrospectively was that having a non-CAS school winning looked a bit odd in the records.
My view is that their results should have stood.

 

[White line fever]

Always good to remember the good old days.
By the way St Pius colours were blue and gold. They were a pretty good side in 1977 and 78. Both them and St Pats had played in The Combined Schools association (TCS) which consisted of 6 catholic schools most of whom are now playing in ISA. St Pats had dominated this comp for a lot of its years (1969 to 1977) but St Pius won it in 1977. For some reason TCS closed and as we have been discussing St Pats and St Pius played with the CAS schools for the next six years although not members.
Had their results counted St Pius would have won (jointly) in 1978 The participation of the 2 extra schools only really impacted on the 1978 and 1979 CAS seasons in that St Aloysius were winners in either 1978 or 79 (but not both) depending on which results counted.
My feeling is that one reason the results were changed retrospectively was that having a non-CAS school winning looked a bit odd in the records.
My view is that their results should have stood.

Red son, we will agree to disagree,which is fine.
Firstly as Barker didn't even play St.Pius in in 1979, that supposed comp argument is over. The CAS has never included Pats or Pius in ANY of our sports, swimming, cricket etc, so trying to bend it doesn't work.
I can absolutely assure you in 1979 in our last game v Barker at Barker we knew and were told if we win we have won the CAS comp undefeated, which is what we did.
Not sure who suggested there was ever more than 6 schools involved in all the CAS sports events, but there never has been, and still isn't!
Have a look at the CAS website that all the CAS subscribe to and you will see the correct winners.
By the way, I am in awe of your historical game analysis, because most of us struggle! Mind you we are better than we were!

 

[White line fever]

Correction to last comment, bloody PC, "Mind you we think we were better then we were!"