Cheerio Deans

[Ash]

Deans definitely still has a lot to contribute to rugby. The big but is.....But, if he is ever to be a truly successful coach again, then he needs to drop some of his personality traits - the stubborness, the favourites (all coaches play favourites, but Deans takes it to a whole new level), the refusal to work with players once he has any conflict with them (and there's a long list of good players Deans has pushed aside).

 

[Pfitzy]

no one .knocked out Irishmen full of grog are very good at finding their own way home...its in their blood.

I was talking about my kids

-----------------------
I hate autocorrect ...

 

[RedsHappy]

RH, why keep giving yourself heartburn? Deans is gone and what's done is done.

As Yoda said to Luke - Let go of your hate. To the dark side, that leads, yes.

It all starts fresh today. Clean slate.

If only it was thus. Yes, re a new and exciting national coach. But no to potentially critical contextual factors that may, as but one example, significantly impact that new coach's ability to drive up the Wallaby win-loss ratio.

An example: due to the appalling financial extravagance of the JO'N II era (e.g. costs ramped to a $16m pa ARU overhead level coupled with large recent $ losses and OTT salaries and super-golden goodbyes), it was recently announced that the Wallabies contracted group would be reduced to a mere 30 players, and we now see that accordingly players-of-the-future such L Gill will be granted no ARU contract, etc. Then let's relate these 'cost saving' facts to the fact that W Gatland needed nearly 50 players to get through and win one short duration BIL series that elapsed about 7 weeks or so versus a typical Wallaby year of many more Tests and far more varied travel and playing conditions, etc.

Another example: the ARU has told our local Brisbane rugby club - a major one for both senior and juniors that's a strong feeder to S15 rugby - that its historical annual ARU grant funding will be virtually eliminated given ARU budget issues.

And so on.

No, there is no true 'clean slate' when one looks at our code's situation here in depth and systemically. Many of the biggest negative consequences of the JO'n Mk II era will only be felt in the next 1-3 years.

 

[Jets]

Deans definitely still has a lot to contribute to rugby. The big but is...But, if he is ever to be a truly successful coach again, then he needs to drop some of his personality traits - the stubborness, the favourites (all coaches play favourites, but Deans takes it to a whole new level), the refusal to work with players once he has any conflict with them (and there's a long list of good players Deans has pushed aside).

That's why I think a European club or NZ Super team would suit him. He would have control over the playing group and move guys on if he had issues with them. As a national coach it becomes hard to get rid of some guys, although he tried hard and did succeed with some.

 

[Gnostic]

RH, why keep giving yourself heartburn? Deans is gone and what's done is done.

As Yoda said to Luke - Let go of your hate. To the dark side, that leads, yes.

It all starts fresh today. Clean slate.

Definitely with regard to the coaching staff and players. The ARU board and management however have a long way to go as RH says. RH comments from a financial perspective.

I would like to add from an ethical perspective significant improvements must be made or people like myself will continue to question every aspect of what they do and view all actions in a cynical light. The ethical issues to be confronted and put to bed are IMO
- player contracts. We now have a situation where players have been shown that they can go overseas and earn the big money (on a side note Serge Blanco has made some very disturbing and I think truthful comments about the French system and the massive inflation it has caused in player payments world wide) and come back to Australia just prior to a major tournament and become eligible for the Wallabies ala G. Smith, D. Vickerman, R. Elsom and L. Burgess. I object to Elsom walking straight back into the Wallabies without any service to Australian Rugby in the season he represented the country. Whilst the letter of the rule was followed the ARU neatly sidestepped the intent of the rules, that is to protect and drive Super Rugby as the elite source of players for the Wallabies. Now G. Smith did play most of the Super season this year but the ARU rushed around and jumped through all sorts of hoops to get him to play in the Lions series. Legend though he is it further undermines the system.
- media leaks. Just yesterday we saw the news that Deans had been invited to quit released nearly 24Hrs before the new conference. People knowing that McGahan had been appointed to the Rebels could speculate and make assumptions but this was an outright leak and it isn't the first. Greater discipline is needed from those involved, and a cessation of the habit of feeding certain journalists inside stories, the Journo's lose credibility and the ARU's message also loses that credibility.
- greater transparency. If the ARU was more open with regard to things like RWC system reviews and things like that I would think that point 2 would cease. They would also gain immense credibility and trust and less people cynically questioning every move they make. Such transparency must also involve instituting strong system so that inordinate power is not wielded by one individual (read JON).
- accountability. The coach has been publicly made responsible for team performance on and off the field, as has always been the case in the past. The board must now also be held to account for the performance of the remainder of the ARU operation.

Do not take my comments the wrong way, I am elated and excited that Deans has been invited to resign and we will see a new coach with a new team dynamic and I am confident a totally changed approach to the game. My elation and excitement doesn't blind me to the challenges facing our game. This is a first great step, and I am happy it has been taken, the next step will be harder but if it isn't taken can Link succeed with the Wallabies?

 

[I like to watch]

Gnostic,
Administrators will only ever be transparent,when they are confident that their decision making process will survive scrutiny.
Don't expect much transparency from this mob.

 

[Braveheart81]

If ever there has been a chance to overhaul ARU top ups, now would be the time.

We're in a position where players like JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) who demand the highest top ups are causing the most problems and another player who had a very high contract, Ioane is heading overseas.

In my opinion now is the time to move back towards a far more transparent payment structure whereby most of the payments result from getting selected in the squad and playing in the team.

Some retainers are required and my view on these would be for single year top ups based entirely on selection in the previous year. Have three levels whereby you have a guarantee of $x if you played 1-5 tests, $y if you played 6-10 tests and $z if you played 11-15 tests. This should ensure many more than 30 people receive top ups but they are more evenly spread and reward performance.

Current year payments are then very similar to what they currently are. You get paid for playing for the Wallabies and once you play about 6 tests in a year you move up to a guaranteed contract for that test season.

Attitude issues and a sense of entitlement amongst certain players has been a major issue in the last few years. We need to change the culture that has created some people who think their public image and marketability is more important to the health of the ARU and the Wallabies than what they do on the field.

 

[Bullrush]

Attitude issues and a sense of entitlement amongst certain players has been a major issue in the last few years. We need to change the culture that has created some people who think their public image and marketability is more important to the health of the ARU and the Wallabies than what they do on the field.

Agree that this is a problem here in Aussie. Some players seem to think that Australian rugby will fall over if they aren't playing.

I still think the ARU got it wrong over QC (Quade Cooper) last year and should have let him have a look around and see who was keen to pick him up. The Rebels have gone the right way with O'Connor, Digby is gone...interesting to see what happens with Beale.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Quade's attitude since shows at least from what we have seen so far, they may have got it right.

 

[Ruggo]

Deans definitely still has a lot to contribute to rugby. The big but is...But, if he is ever to be a truly successful coach again, then he needs to drop some of his personality traits - the stubborness, the favourites (all coaches play favourites, but Deans takes it to a whole new level), the refusal to work with players once he has any conflict with them (and there's a long list of good players Deans has pushed aside).

I think a problem might be that he has had lot's of experience but little diversity and that has been a reason for him being stubborn.

Early on in his tenure he ran a session with the NT under 16's here in Darwin. He spent ages running around setting up his own drills before the session started. To put it into context it was the hottest humid time of the year and the whether must have nearly killed the poor bastard. The enthusiasm in what he was doing was really evident. The interaction with the players was outstanding and he had them completely engaged. After the session he was the bloke to pack up all the gear and then spent ages talking to the parents and the players. I asked him for a photo and an autograph which was no problem and he took the time to have a quick chat with me. He gave off a good vibe that day

I thought he was very impressive and still do to a degree. Getting so frustrated over the Wallabies in the last few years it would be easy to just say this bloke is an arsehole but looking back at that day and he isn't.

The head coach of an international side just doesn't have time to be hands on and I just don't think this is Robbie Deans. In an environment where he could be more hands on I think he has masses to offer.

 

[scaraby]

I was talking about my kids

-----------------------
I hate autocorrect .

what you knocked out your kids??? yeah that bundy looked a bit like straight coke easy to do..
...

 

[Jets]

Definitely with regard to the coaching staff and players. The ARU board and management however have a long way to go as RH says. RH comments from a financial perspective.

I would like to add from an ethical perspective significant improvements must be made or people like myself will continue to question every aspect of what they do and view all actions in a cynical light. The ethical issues to be confronted and put to bed are IMO
- player contracts. We now have a situation where players have been shown that they can go overseas and earn the big money (on a side note Serge Blanco has made some very disturbing and I think truthful comments about the French system and the massive inflation it has caused in player payments world wide) and come back to Australia just prior to a major tournament and become eligible for the Wallabies ala G. Smith, D. Vickerman, R. Elsom and L. Burgess. I object to Elsom walking straight back into the Wallabies without any service to Australian Rugby in the season he represented the country. Whilst the letter of the rule was followed the ARU neatly sidestepped the intent of the rules, that is to protect and drive Super Rugby as the elite source of players for the Wallabies. Now G. Smith did play most of the Super season this year but the ARU rushed around and jumped through all sorts of hoops to get him to play in the Lions series. Legend though he is it further undermines the system.
- media leaks. Just yesterday we saw the news that Deans had been invited to quit released nearly 24Hrs before the new conference. People knowing that McGahan had been appointed to the Rebels could speculate and make assumptions but this was an outright leak and it isn't the first. Greater discipline is needed from those involved, and a cessation of the habit of feeding certain journalists inside stories, the Journo's lose credibility and the ARU's message also loses that credibility.
- greater transparency. If the ARU was more open with regard to things like RWC system reviews and things like that I would think that point 2 would cease. They would also gain immense credibility and trust and less people cynically questioning every move they make. Such transparency must also involve instituting strong system so that inordinate power is not wielded by one individual (read JON).
- accountability. The coach has been publicly made responsible for team performance on and off the field, as has always been the case in the past. The board must now also be held to account for the performance of the remainder of the ARU operation.

Do not take my comments the wrong way, I am elated and excited that Deans has been invited to resign and we will see a new coach with a new team dynamic and I am confident a totally changed approach to the game. My elation and excitement doesn't blind me to the challenges facing our game. This is a first great step, and I am happy it has been taken, the next step will be harder but if it isn't taken can Link succeed with the Wallabies?

Yes, Yes, Yes & Yes.
The ARU need to read this. If they sorted these issues out Australian Rugby would be in much better shape and could hold it's head up high.
Post of the year Gnostic

 

[ACT Crusader]

If only it was thus. Yes, re a new and exciting national coach. But no to potentially critical contextual factors that may, as but one example, significantly impact that new coach's ability to drive up the Wallaby win-loss ratio.

An example: due to the appalling financial extravagance of the JO'N II era (e.g. costs ramped to a $16m pa ARU overhead level coupled with large recent $ losses and OTT salaries and super-golden goodbyes), it was recently announced that the Wallabies contracted group would be reduced to a mere 30 players, and we now see that accordingly players-of-the-future such L Gill will be granted no ARU contract, etc. Then let's relate these 'cost saving' facts to the fact that W Gatland needed nearly 50 players to get through and win one short duration BIL series that elapsed about 7 weeks or so versus a typical Wallaby year of many more Tests and far more varied travel and playing conditions, etc.

Another example: the ARU has told our local Brisbane rugby club - a major one for both senior and juniors that's a strong feeder to S15 rugby - that its historical annual ARU grant funding will be virtually eliminated given ARU budget issues.

And so on.

No, there is no true 'clean slate' when one looks at our code's situation here in depth and systemically. Many of the biggest negative consequences of the JO'n Mk II era will only be felt in the next 1-3 years.

I would say it goes back a number of years. There were contract transparency issues with the lure of Matt Rogers, Lote and Wendall. Then there was the expectation upon national selectors to pick said players because of these astronomical contracts and the supposed value factor.

The slate is never clean for anyone coming into such a role.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The writing was on the wall.

Why didn't he offer his resignation immediately after the series was lost.

At least he would have retained some dignity although it may have probably meant he would lose most of his severence pay or contract termination payout.

You just answered your own question.

Not many people are going to go without 6 months of a lucrative salary just to keep a little more pride intact.

Looks like he eventually found the sword conveniently left in the room by the Pulveriser.

Kept some dignity and probably a stack of his remaining remuneration.

 

[Mullos]

Oh, as a Tahs fan you just 'know' that, do you? Because Quade has just been all over the news lately, huh? Yeesh.

As Kiap has suggested, a family member works within Australian rugby. Anyone that follows rugby closely would know his name and he's been mentioned on here too as well as in Spiro articles about once a year or so. I even stupidly wrote it on Planet Rugby once for those that want to connect the dots and post on both sites like many do.

 

[Gnostic]

This is damming IMO.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby-...led-lions-series/story-fndptke0-1226676724248

""Robbie achieved a great deal in his five years but it was probably a month ago that I cleared up in my mind that the Wallabies were ready for a change," Australian Rugby Union boss Bill Pulver said.
"No, I didn't tell him (until Monday)...we did not want to mess with his head leading into the series."
Pulver made it plain that McKenzie's track record for innovative attack was a major factor in his selection while also saying a new coach meant a tough new line in the sand on team discipline.
Pulver revealed that senior Wallabies had spoken to him about a slip in team disciplinary standards."

Coupled with the interview with Mitchell it shows that it wasn't only game performance that decided Deans fate.

 

[I like to watch]

This is damming IMO.

"Robbie achieved a great deal in his five years but it was probably a month ago that I cleared up in my mind that the Wallabies were ready for a change," Australian Rugby Union boss Bill Pulver said.
"No, I didn't tell him (until Monday).we did not want to mess with his head leading into the series."

The Wallabies win the series 3-0 and Pulver sacks Deans?
He speaks with forked tongue.

 

[Braveheart81]

The Wallabies win the series 3-0 and Pulver sacks Deans?
He speaks with forked tongue.

Of course if the Wallabies had won the series convincingly, he could have just kept Deans in the job for the rest of the year.

It's easy to say after the event that you were going to let him go either way.

 

[Slim 293]

Of course if the Wallabies had won the series convincingly, he could have just kept Deans in the job for the rest of the year.

It's easy to say after the event that you were going to let him go either way.

Yeah, I think Deans was gone either way and the result of the Lions series determned if that was now or at the end of his contract.........

The only thing that might've changed Pulver's mind to keep him onto until the RWC would've been a Lions series, Bledisloe, Tri Nations and a convincing EOYT.........

 

[I like to watch]

Hang on, I thought Deans resigned?