Colts 2013

[stonecutter]

At another level - I think Southern Districts last few games will be good for them. I wouldn't like Parramatta's draw - especially as they have played the top four teams once this year. (Southern will have played the top four twice). Except for Warringah they have a reasonable run to the finals. Then it is reality check - whoever they meet from the leading sides.

Firstly, the clubs don't create the draw or competition so all any club can do is play who they are allocated. This is based I believe on previous club championship results and Parramatta's situation last year is a long way from where they stand now.

Secondly, they gave Manly a decent fright a couple of weeks ago albeit Manly were missing some of their stars but Parramatta were also minus 1 or 2 of their regulars. If memory serves me well they drew Uni, Manly and Randwick in the first 3 rounds and lost expectedly but showed signs of promise and now sit in 5th place which is testament to what they are trying to develop.

Thirdly, I doubt they are concerning themselves with anything more than the game scheduled for this week as this has been the focus, I believe, all year. Whoever they end up meeting in round 1 of the finals, if they get there, will not phase them. If they get to round 2 then it might be the other teams who have the pressure to bare as finals can find weaknesses in teams that the rounds don't show.

Fourthly, where ever they finish the season it is an astounding turnaround from a club and group of players who last year struggled to put together 1 side and might qualify for finals in all 3 grades this year. The coaching staff obviously understand team/club culture and it shows in each of their performances. Congratulations to them all.

 

[Dave Beat]

Firstly, the clubs don't create the draw or competition so all any club can do is play who they are allocated. This is based I believe on previous club championship results and Parramatta's situation last year is a long way from where they stand now.

Secondly, they gave Manly a decent fright a couple of weeks ago albeit Manly were missing some of their stars but Parramatta were also minus 1 or 2 of their regulars. If memory serves me well they drew Uni, Manly and Randwick in the first 3 rounds and lost expectedly but showed signs of promise and now sit in 5th place which is testament to what they are trying to develop.

Thirdly, I doubt they are concerning themselves with anything more than the game scheduled for this week as this has been the focus, I believe, all year. Whoever they end up meeting in round 1 of the finals, if they get there, will not phase them. If they get to round 2 then it might be the other teams who have the pressure to bare as finals can find weaknesses in teams that the rounds don't show.

Fourthly, where ever they finish the season it is an astounding turnaround from a club and group of players who last year struggled to put together 1 side and might qualify for finals in all 3 grades this year. The coaching staff obviously understand team/club culture and it shows in each of their performances. Congratulations to them all.

Really hard fix, one it is not a full home and away any way, two all clubs don't field 3 teams. What this tells me is the weakest teams may change the whole Shute Shield. It would be unfortunate if the weakest cause the biggest impact.

 

[The Galah]

It was a forfeit but with an unfortunate story attached.

I suggested on another thread that the ARU or SRU should pay a coach of professional standard a decent salary package to take on the role of full time Director of Rugby at Penrith. Actually I suggested it should be a Director of Rugby/First Grade Coach, but having watched Penrith Firsts today I see no particular reason to replace the Firsts Coach. But the Club urgently needs to be provided with some real rugby expertise with a commitment of at least three years. Really poor training attendance indicates that morale at the Club is currently very low.

It would be a tragedy if this large centre of population and potential rugby talent were to be abandoned.
.

Bruce can you exercise some exert some Sydney Uni influence on Messrs N Farr Jones and M Hawker in this regard and in turn the Pulveriser!?

 

[Doofus]

I thought the entire team played well. With some average refereering, boys did well to keep up the momentum and keep the pressure on. Will be unfortunate to loose Waldo. Do u mean he may play up in grade?

I understand Waldo will stay with Colts Ists however - one of the great advantages with Southern Districts is being given the opportuntiy to play up in Grade - which quite a few Colts have enjoyed and benefited from this year. Character building and experience the games physicality at another level!

 

[Doofus]

Firstly, the clubs don't create the draw or competition so all any club can do is play who they are allocated. This is based I believe on previous club championship results and Parramatta's situation last year is a long way from where they stand now.

Secondly, they gave Manly a decent fright a couple of weeks ago albeit Manly were missing some of their stars but Parramatta were also minus 1 or 2 of their regulars. If memory serves me well they drew Uni, Manly and Randwick in the first 3 rounds and lost expectedly but showed signs of promise and now sit in 5th place which is testament to what they are trying to develop.

Thirdly, I doubt they are concerning themselves with anything more than the game scheduled for this week as this has been the focus, I believe, all year. Whoever they end up meeting in round 1 of the finals, if they get there, will not phase them. If they get to round 2 then it might be the other teams who have the pressure to bare as finals can find weaknesses in teams that the rounds don't show.

Fourthly, where ever they finish the season it is an astounding turnaround from a club and group of players who last year struggled to put together 1 side and might qualify for finals in all 3 grades this year. The coaching staff obviously understand team/club culture and it shows in each of their performances. Congratulations to them all.

Methinks you missed my point - the draw is what it is. Good luck to 2 blues.

To quote one german philosopher (Frederich Nietschze) "what doesn't kills makes us stronger" underpins what I think will benefit Southern Districts team and their lead up to the finals.

They will give it their best shot - and as the wise ones say its about the journey not so much the destination!

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I understand Waldo will stay with Colts Ists however - one of the great advantages with Southern Districts is being given the opportuntiy to play up in Grade - which quite a few Colts have enjoyed and benefited from this year. Character building and experience the games physicality at another level!

I believe most clubs have given opportunities to their u20 players in grade this year. Just hope that age eligible players who have not played Colts for most of the year do not suddenly appear in Colts teams around semi time.

 

[strokeside]

Just raising the flag for Warringah, two weeks ago against Uni was a great turnaround from the 1st round, (almost halving the differential) not a win but a very good loss! And last Sat. vs Randwick, a win of 36-28, flipping a first round loss of 58-7. The little Rats are coming good!!

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Just raising the flag for Warringah, two weeks ago against Uni was a great turnaround from the 1st round, (almost halving the differential) not a win but a very good loss! And last Sat. vs Randwick, a win of 36-28, flipping a first round loss of 58-7. The little Rats are coming good!!

Good to see the Rats coming good. Looking forward to saturday with the northern beaches derby taking place at Rat Park. The first round was a willing and physical affair and no doubt Saturdays game will be no different

 

[Blackers13]

With three rounds left, I'd be interested in seeing top 8 predictions in Colts 1.
Here's mine
1 Uni
2 Manly
3 Norths
4 Randwick
5 Parramatta
6 Warringah
7 Souths
8 West Harbour

 

[Tah and feathered]

Big call to have Wests in and Eastwood out
With 3 games left Souths are taking a lot of momentum into these games.
Souths played 20 minutes of the 2nd half against Norths with a forward in the bin and held Norths to 3 points.
With 3 players still out but due back shortly Souths should be able to maintain there momentum and if forwards win the big games then Souths are coming good at the right time.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Uni
Manly
Parra
Norths
Randwick
Souths
Warringah
Eastwood

 

[Doofus]

Player Points System (PPs) (particular reference to Colts 2013) - Is it time for a review?

Fascinating area on googling PPs and courtesy of www.theroar.com.au/2011/08/09/how-the-shute-shield-salary-cap-works/

The Shute Shield has a salary cap… well, at least the equivalent of a salary cap. It’s called the “Premiership Player Points System”.
It was introduced by Jim L’Estrange in his role as Chief Executive Officer of NSW Rugby. It commenced in 2010 and was adjusted in 2011. It is not very well publicised, if at all.

Each player gets a points rating and discount at the commencement of the season based on their playing experience.
The fundamental difference between a traditional salary cap and this points system is that it applies to four teams in each club: first and second grade and first and second grade colts.

The maximum player points for each team is:
First grade: 100
Second grade: 60
First grade colts: 40
Second grade colts: 35

Appendix: Details of the Player Points System.

Allocation:

The points are allocated on the following basis:
1. Category A (20 points): A player who has played 15 a side for a Tier 1 international Union.

2. Category B (16 points): A player who has been selected in the match day 22 for at least three Super rugby or Heineken Cup matches (16 points).

3. Category C (10 points): A player who holds a current Super Rugby contract or A player who has played (i.e. taken the field):
a. in 40 or more 1st grade games in NSW Premiership competition (in total across any clubs) or;
b. 15 a side for a Pacific Island international Union (e.g. Fiji, Samoa, Tonga) or;
c. Australian age representative in 2009 or 2010 (U20) or;
d. SANZAR Union 1st division provincial championship (e.g. NPC, Currie Cup) in 2009 or 2010 or;
e. Guinness Premiership, Magners League, French Top 14, European Challenge Cup or Anglo Welsh Cup in 2009 or 2010.

4. Category D (6 points): Australian schoolboy representative in 2010 OR a player who has played;
a. between 25 and 39 1st grade games in the Premiership competition (in total across any Clubs) or;
b. more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games at a different Premiership Club in 2010

5. Category E (4 points): A player who is not an Australian Citizen, AND was not a resident in Australia during both 2009 AND 2010 OR a player who has played:
a. more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games in 2010
b. Division 1 at the Australian Schoolboys championships in 2010

6. Category F (2 points): all other players.
Discounts:

The following discounts are then applied:
1. Family: 5 points for new players to the club (in their first year only) for siblings of existing players that played the previous season with the club or sons of past players.
2. Local: One point per year discount (up to a maximum of four points) for players who have previously played with the club or previously played with a local junior club between U11-U17;
3. Long service: Discount for Category A, B, C or D, 100% discount for five years or more service with the club;
4. Experience: Discount for Category A, B or C players (up to a maximum of five points) of one point per year each year they have been out of international union or Super Rugby representation.

 

[strokeside]

Good to see the Rats coming good. Looking forward to saturday with the northern beaches derby taking place at Rat Park. The first round was a willing and physical affair and no doubt Saturdays game will be no different

yep, looking forward to a good contest, as per 1st round it's on early, just after 1.00 I think, (so able to zip across town and catch No2 son's kickoff, perfect day!) the games' on the main ground, so maybe some home advantage? Rats have three return this week, the LHP, No10 and one of the wingers.

 

[Doofus]

Player Points from Shute Shield website - Colts First Grade - apologies for the formatting !!

As at 20/07/2013 Round Player Points reported

Round 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 18 13 14 Av PPs per game

Sydney University 40 38 40 39 39 40 40 38 38 38 37 31 36 28 35 37.1
Manly 33 22 29 25 25 29 23 23 21 25 23 27 26 22 29 25.4
Northern Suburbs 36 34 37 40 37 33 35 33 35 31 31 32 28 31 35 33.8
Randwick 37 35 32 38 38 38 38 31 33 28 32 33 33 37 35 34.5
Parramatta 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 11 13 11 8 9 11 9.4
Warringah 4 3 3 10 3 6 4 5 2 2 3 5 5 4 6 4.3
Southern Districts 30 10 26 16 20 18 16 14 16 14 22 18 18 10 18 17.7
Eastwood 16 17 12 17 18 13 14 12 10 10 17 29 14 14 15 15.2
Gordon 10 12 12 8 10 4 6 8 8 6 7 6 N/R 10 N/R 8.2 (adjusted)
West Harbour 14 16 19 26 25 23 20 17 18 18 13 13 15 14 13 17.6
Eastern Suburbs 31 33 32 32 35 34 25 25 29 32 30 31 27 25 22 29.5
Penrith 7 10 4 6 4 4 4 6 6 0 4 5 6 6 6 5.2

 

[strokeside]

Player Points from Shute Shield website - Colts First Grade - apologies for the formatting !!

As at 20/07/2013 Round Player Points reported

Round 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 18 13 14 Av PPs per game

Great info, I'm even more impressed with my little rats, punching well above their weight!!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I see in the Rats 3rds and 2nds vs Uni in round 13 on 13 July that there was a rather unusual similarity between the 2's and 3's teams on the scoresheets.

There were 19 players on the 2's sheet, and 19 players on the 3's sheet. 14 kids appeared on both team sheets. Little wonder the Rats 2's went down by 90+ points against Students 2's, when they were effectively the 3's with 5 new players.

Is there a player number shortage going down in the Rats lower grade Colts or is it just kids away on holidays and injuries?

 

[Franky]

The colts numbers at the Rats reflect the uni holidays, ski season, injuries and starting off with a moderate player pool in terms of numbers. Let's hope that 1st colts at the Rats continue with their form as the finals approach.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Tough time of year the Uni and School Holidays for the Lower Grade Colts teams, and many of the "uncharacteristic" scores can be explained by this.

As more and more of the CHS and CCC school kids play Colts rugby because the Juniors do not offer a suitable level of competition for these kids, the problem with Colts 2 and 3 numbers during the mid-winter School/Uni holidays will become more of an issue.

Uni seem to have the player depth to cover this period, and you have to feel sorry for the Rats boys who effectively had to play two games back to back against fresh Uni teams.

Kudos must go to the Rats for playing and not forfeiting the second game. They would have been tempted to do so as the score climbed above 50 - 0 in the 2's up against a fresh team from Uni.

 

[strokeside]

Good observation HJ,
Checking my sources, the 3rd's played their game then most of them ran on in the 2nd's, and a few also had time on in the 1st's. I get the feeling "forfeit's'' a dirty word down Warringah way!!

 

[Dave Beat]

It was 25 years ago, but I recall it going from Under 16's to Under 21 Colts, under 17's didn't seem to exist back then (or struggled way back then as well). You had to man up but could spend 4 - 5 years in the one age group, or go onto grade when ready