Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
Gordon only had 1 team today which is a big concern with 1 week to go. They also couldn't field a front row. Eastwood ran out 3 different teams against them for 25 mins each.
Colts 2013
- Thread starter Done that
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Gordon only had 1 team today which is a big concern with 1 week to go. They also couldn't field a front row. Eastwood ran out 3 different teams against them for 25 mins each.
Tah and feathered
Watty Friend (18)
Thanks eyes and ears
Doesn't sound good about Gordon but I had heard they were getting around 25 players turning up for training
When I was at Penrith last week for the southern Districts/Syd Uni/ penrith trials I was speaking to the Penrith people and they said they have about 40 colts players but they are mostly from Mount Druitt so Penrith are thinking about have colts train at Mount Druitt so they keep the numbers.
Next week when I go to a colts game I will put up the results of the days games.
Doesn't sound good about Gordon but I had heard they were getting around 25 players turning up for training
When I was at Penrith last week for the southern Districts/Syd Uni/ penrith trials I was speaking to the Penrith people and they said they have about 40 colts players but they are mostly from Mount Druitt so Penrith are thinking about have colts train at Mount Druitt so they keep the numbers.
Next week when I go to a colts game I will put up the results of the days games.
Sydney Rugby tragic
Peter Burge (5)
I heard Illawarra product Tommy Sawden started at No.9 for West Harbour 1st v Easts on fri . By all accounts he didn't look out of place playing against older , bigger boys &'turned in a solid performance .
At 16 yrs he is a great prospect for the future.
I
At 16 yrs he is a great prospect for the future.
I
Tah and feathered
Watty Friend (18)
Gordon are only going to play 1 colts side and Prnrith will play 2
Really disappointing about Gordon who have a lot of schools near them and solid juniors.
Really disappointing about Gordon who have a lot of schools near them and solid juniors.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
Having been up to my neck in that struggle since the end of 2009 I feel sorry for Gordon. I understand the predicament they find themsleves in and empathise with them. They have some good people there who will guide them out of the mire.
Hopefully though, the sharks that circled us in those years won't circle Gordon as well and they'll be allowed to grow their way out of it.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Tah and feathered
Watty Friend (18)
Gordon were once a consistent powerhouse in colts and now they can only field 1 side, that's a squad of 25 players
Is this because they only want to field 1 colt team or is it because its one of those blimps that happen occasionally.
Last year Gordon fielded 2 colt sides and there 2ns colts were not very good so to me it looks like they have not tried to improve there colts organisation and have taken the easy route and stuff everyone else
Good on Penrith for what they have done to increase there colts and also to Parramatta
Parramatta have shown it can be done and I think our colts competition is a great competition that works really well and is the best U/20 competition in the world on various levels and we should be ensuring its strength not let it slide.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
This is just my opinion.
The cause of the slide for us wasn't limited to just one reason but a number of contributing factors.
The first being the most critical factor:neglect.
For too long, Parra assumed the talent coming through from juniors and junior reps would just come into colts out of a sense of loyalty to the seniors. This wasn't the case.
Another reason is the lack of a quality programme that remained consistent. No disrespect to any of the colts coaches of the past but the programme was not consistent with the rest of the club. And the colts coaches would change quite regularly. So a new programme would come in every year, again run separately from the rest of the club. So in effect the reality was that the club was two separate entities. One year the colts didn't even train or play at Granville Park. They instead trained and played at Blacktown. This created a massive divide within the club from both sides of the discussion.
We've also lost a number of our better colts aged players to other clubs for money or educational opportunity. This though should not be an excuse. Mainly because we aren't the only club exposed to those threats.
Before everyone takes the opportunity to kick Uni based on the above comment; don't. We've lost more players to neighbouring clubs than we have to Uni. It's the nature of the beast.
We have lost more players to league than we have to other clubs combined. I'm not talking NRL clubs though. It's park footy clubs like Mount Pritchard, Cabramatta, Campbelltown, Hills Bulls etc. A decent colt aged player can earn upwards of $300 a game in league at that level. We had a 3rd grade winger in 2011 who left us to join a park league club for $500 a game.
It has been (along with the previously mentioned neglect) the major contributing factor to the exodus of players.
We have worked harder on this year's colts than we have on any other aspect of the club combined. We're seeing the reward for that now in numbers but it is nothing but hard work that's going to keep it that way.
Finally, I read with interest where a 'high ranking' ARU official admitted there is no desire to fight the fight in the west. This is suicide. They have their heads in the sand and are completely naive to how entrenched league is out here. Neglecting it will provide the game as a whole with exactly the same problem we face as a district.
I fear for the future of this code
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
My impressions thus far this year ,& I am generalising ,is that there is a drop off in player numbers for many S.S. clubs.This is true not only in the colts divisions , but in grade also.
A number of clubs will struggle to field a third grade colts team , & one or two will have difficulty getting a second grade side.
There was a time when a fourth grade colts competition existed .
Even at a senior level the numbers seem to be lower than usual , & the standard of fourth grade trial games is unusually poor in the games I have seen.
I am told by people from several clubs that they have barely enough at training to field four grade teams , & this does not take into account injuries etc that
will inevitably take their toll when the season starts.Of course there will be others who have yet to drift in from wherever , but the current numbers give a pretty good
indication of the final state of play.
Contrast this with past seasons several years ago , when many clubs had enough players to field six senior teams.
Parramatta are the exception this year ,& have worked hard to improve their no's .
However I suspect that a proportion of their "new" players particularly in colts , have come at the expense of neighboring clubs Eastwood & West Harbour , with a number
of these , in particular the Oakhill boys , for example , usually going to Eastwood in the past.
Even in a number of clubs which have recruited well for their first grade colts team , the numbers are not as strong as usual overall.
I think it is totally incorrect & insulting to the club , to suggest that Gordon have a " stuff everyone else " attitude or have not attempted to improve
their numbers & playing strength.
I have no association with Gordon ,but for the overall good of Rugby ,I , & most others I would think , hope that they are able to reverse their recent decline .
In closing , I suspect that the loss of player numbers in most S.S. clubs , can be partly ,but not totally explained , by an increase in the numbers going to sub district clubs, & as mentioned above to park rugby league football , for reasonable money.
As we all know , a little bit of promotion of the Shute Shield & it's associated competitions ,& the clubs involved , is long overdue.
A number of clubs will struggle to field a third grade colts team , & one or two will have difficulty getting a second grade side.
There was a time when a fourth grade colts competition existed .
Even at a senior level the numbers seem to be lower than usual , & the standard of fourth grade trial games is unusually poor in the games I have seen.
I am told by people from several clubs that they have barely enough at training to field four grade teams , & this does not take into account injuries etc that
will inevitably take their toll when the season starts.Of course there will be others who have yet to drift in from wherever , but the current numbers give a pretty good
indication of the final state of play.
Contrast this with past seasons several years ago , when many clubs had enough players to field six senior teams.
Parramatta are the exception this year ,& have worked hard to improve their no's .
However I suspect that a proportion of their "new" players particularly in colts , have come at the expense of neighboring clubs Eastwood & West Harbour , with a number
of these , in particular the Oakhill boys , for example , usually going to Eastwood in the past.
Even in a number of clubs which have recruited well for their first grade colts team , the numbers are not as strong as usual overall.
I think it is totally incorrect & insulting to the club , to suggest that Gordon have a " stuff everyone else " attitude or have not attempted to improve
their numbers & playing strength.
I have no association with Gordon ,but for the overall good of Rugby ,I , & most others I would think , hope that they are able to reverse their recent decline .
In closing , I suspect that the loss of player numbers in most S.S. clubs , can be partly ,but not totally explained , by an increase in the numbers going to sub district clubs, & as mentioned above to park rugby league football , for reasonable money.
As we all know , a little bit of promotion of the Shute Shield & it's associated competitions ,& the clubs involved , is long overdue.
Blackers13
Syd Malcolm (24)
Of the dozen or so boys from Oakhill, 6 played juniors with Parramatta clubs, 2 played with Wests, 2 played with Eastwood clubs and the remainder didn't play clubs Rugby, so the majority have a Parramatta pedigree. These boys saw an opportunity to stick together and help rebuild our program under the astute coaching structure of Christini and Tuckwell. You are right, for too long, Oakhill College was seen as a feeder for Eastwood, whereas it's actually in Castle Hill which is in the Hills junior district and therefore a Parramatta nursery. I said earlier in this forum that Parramatta will look to reclaim it's nurseries of Oakhill, Kings and the Hills and Westfield Sports Highs. of course we'll only do it if we continue to offer a quality program and strong club culture and that's exactly what we're focussed on.
Gordon 3rd Colts won the premiership in 2009, Gordon 2nd colts made the Grand Final in 2010, Gordon 1 colts made the finals in 2011 and 2012. I know that in 2010, there were 119 registered colts players. It is extremely disappointing that this year we are not able to field more colts side in an area with such strong juniors. This is due to deplorable recruitment efforts over the last 2 years and was a certainly a contributing factor for the club's decision to elect a new board who have since made significant efforts with recruitment, sponsorship and financial management. Gordon has unfortunately had a poor reputation among some school leavers as not being as 'professional' like Norths and in 2011/12 there may have been some truth to this. We will, no doubt be able to field 3 teams next year and hope to be genuine contenders as the coaching structure and improved efforts at the club continue. There is still some hope that we will field 2 teams this year and I was proud of the efforts of the 20 colts who played halves against eastwood 1s, 2s and 3s yesterday. The grade sides had a strong showing and I'd expect 1st grade to be a force this year after losing 6 tries to 4 against Eastwood yesterday and playing well above Warringah last week.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
Correct. It's the brave new world now.
Interestingly though, 66% of our 'new' players played juniors for village club in Parra District at some stage. we will now begin to keep our own, thus addressing the recruitment policy issues of the past and neighbouring clubs.
The Galah
Darby Loudon (17)
Its easy for an incoming board to blame the outgoing one for woes besetting organisation but I apprehend a lot of force in to now neglect/lack of recruitment efforts leading to Gordon's parlous state with Colts. Norths with it attention to recruitment and all round structure has obviously been the beneficiary in the same way as Warringah is struggling to keep its best juniors and locals from heading to Manly whose excellent colts program has evolved over several years. Two Blues are now reaping the rewards as well and I look forward to seeing the evidence on field.
We should not rule out changing demographics and the time demands and sheer array of choices for Gen Y rugby players. In that regard one night a week at subbies training is enough for most.
Turning things round requires time and vision and at least the new Gordon board has the latter . Unfortunately the ARU seems to be lacking both . I too fear for the Code - they are dead set kidding if a reserves Super 15 comp is the way to win back fans and grow the game. It will merely dilute top level club rugby and alienate the grass roots supporter.
stonecutter
Chris McKivat (8)
I too fear for a code that has lost its way in the years post amateurism. Unfortunately with the money came many bungling officials who have pandered to many requests from players yet to prove their worth at senior levels. Look at the mess that is the "Waratahs". Here is a franchise with the cream of Australian junior rugby at it's disposal who can't find a backline player with requisite catch and pass skills, let alone the dynamics to beat a man one on one. Why? because like a drunken punter at the races we keep investing in untried yearlings in the vain hope that they may one day turn into a star thoroughbred.
When are the morons at the ARU or "Tahland" going to realise that it's a safer return on an investment to nourish these kids through school and keep their hatsizes lower than their IQ without promising bags of Wallaby gold, before monitoring them through Colts where they can develop further both mentally and physically and learn to be dominant. What's the hurry? there's a new crop each year, so if this lot don't quite work out then last years will get us to another year, won't it? and best of all they are learning to be young men in an open environment where they may be exposed to a different view of the game outside of the Jonestown diatribe espoused by the inner sanctum of the ARU star chamber.
At what level of rugby are we considered to be close to the top of the competition? Wallabies-remember Scotland and Samoa, U20's-8th place or was that 9th, Sevens-Kenya ard Canada outrank us. The Academy experiment has been a complete failure and those who created it and ran it should be moved on with haste. There are enough players out there running around at Colts/Club level to fill our 5 provinces but we insist on only developing those who are potential worldbeaters at age 15 and then treating them like Gods. Kurtley Beale might be playing this weekend if he hadn't been academised by the age of 18.
Gordon, I fear, are a victim of their own circumstances in so much that by the time many of the stars from Knox, Barker, Riverview, Shore or Kings are ready to venture into senior rugby they have been brainwashed into believing they are deserved of remuneration of sorts for plying their talents and it's well recognised that Gordon are not in a position to pursue this line of thinking. In the meantime the vultures within Sydney rugby who profit from this will continue to do so at others expense. I hope Gordon hold their ground and can develop a culture of club before individual and return to competetive numbers in the near future.
But while the Administration of the game has only the Federal Labour Party ranked below it for negligence and incompetence it is going to be a long struggle for most who revere this sport to stay loyal and inspired let alone believe that anyone at HQ ST Leonards gives a rats arse about Gordon's plight.
When are the morons at the ARU or "Tahland" going to realise that it's a safer return on an investment to nourish these kids through school and keep their hatsizes lower than their IQ without promising bags of Wallaby gold, before monitoring them through Colts where they can develop further both mentally and physically and learn to be dominant. What's the hurry? there's a new crop each year, so if this lot don't quite work out then last years will get us to another year, won't it? and best of all they are learning to be young men in an open environment where they may be exposed to a different view of the game outside of the Jonestown diatribe espoused by the inner sanctum of the ARU star chamber.
At what level of rugby are we considered to be close to the top of the competition? Wallabies-remember Scotland and Samoa, U20's-8th place or was that 9th, Sevens-Kenya ard Canada outrank us. The Academy experiment has been a complete failure and those who created it and ran it should be moved on with haste. There are enough players out there running around at Colts/Club level to fill our 5 provinces but we insist on only developing those who are potential worldbeaters at age 15 and then treating them like Gods. Kurtley Beale might be playing this weekend if he hadn't been academised by the age of 18.
Gordon, I fear, are a victim of their own circumstances in so much that by the time many of the stars from Knox, Barker, Riverview, Shore or Kings are ready to venture into senior rugby they have been brainwashed into believing they are deserved of remuneration of sorts for plying their talents and it's well recognised that Gordon are not in a position to pursue this line of thinking. In the meantime the vultures within Sydney rugby who profit from this will continue to do so at others expense. I hope Gordon hold their ground and can develop a culture of club before individual and return to competetive numbers in the near future.
But while the Administration of the game has only the Federal Labour Party ranked below it for negligence and incompetence it is going to be a long struggle for most who revere this sport to stay loyal and inspired let alone believe that anyone at HQ ST Leonards gives a rats arse about Gordon's plight.
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
The point of my remarks which you quoted , is that whilst Parramatta's numbers have increased , that does not indicate that my impression that numbers overall are down , is not correct ,i.e. while your
numbers are up , my information is that adjoining club (& elsewhere ) numbers are down , probably in part due to some players who would have gone to Eastwood & West Harbour in your case , going instead to Parramatta for whatever reason.
Congratulations to Parramatta for their recent successes , however my concern is for the future of the code as a whole.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
Hahaha. Love it. I bet NO-ONE on this blog disagrees!
I think you've just given me a new signature!
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
As is ours DT. Unlike other clubs, we recognise that we need opponents to play in order to have a competition.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
You've just lost your bet, Belly. Here's one dissenting voice.
I would advocate that politics and religion be off limits in the rugby section of this site. I don't need other people to make up my mind for me or to assume that they speak on my behalf.
.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
Ah well. Can't win em all.
But you're right Bruce, as always. I mean politics has NEVER been discussed in any section of this website. Ever!
Interesting though that you're a dissenting voice. It poses a couple of questions.
- Is it your opinion that the administration of the game is ranked higher than the federal government for negligence etc?
- Or do you just not give a rats arse about Gordon's plight?
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
- Status