LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
It slightly helps to decelerate before impact and cushion the blow - same idea behind a crumple zone at the front/rear of a car
Concussions and Protecting Our Players
- Thread starter USARugger
- Start date
dru
Tim Horan (67)
As you say, basic physics. There is never an instantaneous deceleration. What the helmet does is change the rate of deceleration. My Jeep stays intact in many accidents where a Hyundai is crumpled. Despite the "look" you are much safer in the Hyundai.
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
Surely the risks are well enough known that if you choose to play then you get what comes to you.
I agree with payments to those who played prior to CTE becoming widely accepted but if you choose to play now then it would be the equivalent of starting cigarette smoking and then suing tobacco companies in 20 years time because you get lung cancer.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
I'm no lawyer, but if a smoker had started through encouragement from a manufacturer and stayed with that manufacturer throughout and the cancer was attributable to smoking - they'd be successful in suing, wouldn't they?
I agree though there is personal responsibility, I don't think it outweighs the public risk from the sport though. Either way, a responsible sport aught be analysing the science and taking action around the results for something like this.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Seems unlikely. No liability for the materialisation of an obvious and inherent risk. Everyone knows that smoking is going to fuck you up so you do it at your own risk
Causation is also tricky. For example, smoking is known to increase the risk of emphysema but people also get emphysema without ever smoking.
As an aside, people seem to assume it's a fait accompli that unions are gunna get slugged with enormous civil lawsuits and lose at some point. I don't think the risk is as high as perceived.
As you say - if rugby analyses the science and responds in a way that demonstrates it is taking reasonable steps to limit a known risk they will probably be completely fine.
And even if not, liability in Aus is capped (to limit insurance premiums) so rugby could survive some adverse findings.
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LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
The "you get what comes to you" approach is probably unwise if you want contact sports to maintain popularity long-term, with the occurrence of CTE becoming increasingly known. Aside from this, there are still so many unknowns when it comes to the required level of exposure, force, etc. that I don't think you can actually have fully informed consent regarding the risk at this stage.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
100% - the real risk to the sport is people not wanting to play because of the apparent dangers. Not so much legal risk.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
IMO it's had a massive impact on the decline in participation/popularity of junior and schoolboy rugby in the last 15+ years, and it's not often discussed. The perceived risk is massive incentive for some parents to sway their kids towards soccer, basketball, etc.
Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
There are 2 things to consider:
1. If the sport wants more people to be involved and play then it needs to show it is serious about protecting players.
2. Even if players makes an informed decision to play the sport, that doesn't indemnify the sport for being reckless or negligent in the care of the players.
Tex
Greg Davis (50)
I'm curious whether GARG members and posters in this thread would reconsider their approach to rugby, knowing what they do now about the risks of head injuries and CTE?
Admitting that 15yo me knew "far more" than I do now, particularly around things like personal risk, I'd be very cautious about playing the game. I don't have kids but would probably be steering them towards non-contact sports.
It's a tough call as I loved every minute of playing rugby, but as an adult with a finer appreciation of health and longevity, my risk aversion is a lot stronger.
Admitting that 15yo me knew "far more" than I do now, particularly around things like personal risk, I'd be very cautious about playing the game. I don't have kids but would probably be steering them towards non-contact sports.
It's a tough call as I loved every minute of playing rugby, but as an adult with a finer appreciation of health and longevity, my risk aversion is a lot stronger.
Tex
Greg Davis (50)
Generally it's the higher grades and professional ranks.
But...
www.mja.com.au
Some highlights:
- CTE was identified in the brains of older former professionals with long playing careers, but also in younger, non‐professional sportsmen and in recent professionals who had played under modern concussion guidelines.
- The mean age at death of the donors with CTE (48 years; standard deviation [SD], 19 years) was lower than for those without CTE (75 years; SD, 19 years), but mean duration of sport participation was similar for the two groups.
- Six of the 12 donors with CTE and one of nine without CTE had died by suicide (P = 0.042), suggesting CTE may be a suicide risk factor.
From memory (and very happy to be corrected) one of the donors had played contact sport in high school only.
But...
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy in Australia: the first three years of the Australian Sports Brain Bank
Clinicians and policymakers should develop measures that further mitigate the risk of sport-related repetitive head injury
Some highlights:
- CTE was identified in the brains of older former professionals with long playing careers, but also in younger, non‐professional sportsmen and in recent professionals who had played under modern concussion guidelines.
- The mean age at death of the donors with CTE (48 years; standard deviation [SD], 19 years) was lower than for those without CTE (75 years; SD, 19 years), but mean duration of sport participation was similar for the two groups.
- Six of the 12 donors with CTE and one of nine without CTE had died by suicide (P = 0.042), suggesting CTE may be a suicide risk factor.
From memory (and very happy to be corrected) one of the donors had played contact sport in high school only.
Tex
Greg Davis (50)
Aka 'is this just a hangover or am I doomed?'
Real talk though, the thought has crossed my mind.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
More than likely yes, as atrophy is thought to be directly linked with exposure - as in the paper @Tex just linked, you don't have to be taking knocks 6 days a week for 30 years for it to occur. Obviously a lot of what we know stems from professionals who've often donated their brains based on suspicion of CTE, which means our understanding of the impacts of lower-levels quite limited. The tragic part is that it won't often show on MRIs and CTs, with post-mortem being the only way to diagnose, so we've got no idea until it's too late.
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
It is a concern for parents, my 5 year old son plays soccer as it develops good coordination, team work and kicking skills. I don't practice headers with him and don't really want him playing any full contact sports including Rugby until he is older, if he chooses to.