Concussions and Protecting Our Players

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Great points and yes it always gets put down to something like Rugby being the last instance and the trend.

I know it’s a bit different and touchy subject but look at Covid deaths. Covid technically did kill you but most of the people who unfortunately passed had a multitude of co morbidities like type 2 diabetes and others. These are just as responsible as the Covid but don’t get the attention.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

"Mouthguards that flash red to signal a player needs checking for a head injury will be used by the Black Ferns and all other teams at the women’s Rugby World Cup before being introduced to all top-flight rugby."

'Red alert' — mouthguards to flash warning at Rugby World Cup

Black Ferns and all other teams at this year's Rugby World Cup will wear mouthguards that flash red after being hit by a significant impact.

www.1news.co.nz

 

[PhilClinton]

I love in the article how it says they've had players who are against it because they've got bluetooth in the them.

But I am sure those same players all wear wireless earbuds!

 

[Strewthcobber]

These mouthguards are going to be amazing for the data they'll be able to collect over a game/season/career

I wonder what the data around these mouthguards show for the repetitive sub-concussive impacts that cause CTE - ie how many times over a season are players having a head acceleration event, even while not getting concussed.

Edit - to answer my own question - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-023-01953-7

HAE incidence above 10 g was 22.7 and 13.2 per hour in men’s forwards and backs and 11.8 and 7.2 per hour in women’s forwards and backs, respectively.

Say 15 x 80 min games a season (?), that will be 400+ events per player per season. Question is, is 400 events at 10g (min) that bad?

 

[Wilson]

These mouthguards are going to be amazing for the data they'll be able to collect over a game/season/career

I wonder what the data around these mouthguards show for the repetitive sub-concussive impacts that cause CTE - ie how many times over a season are players having a head acceleration event, even while not getting concussed.

Edit - to answer my own question - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-023-01953-7


Say 15 x 80 min games a season (?), that will be 400+ events per player per season. Question is, is 400 events at 10g (min) that bad?

It's a big step forward, but unless they're wearing them in training and adding that to the picture it's a big gap in the data, particularly when it comes to those repeated sub-concussive impacts.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's a big step forward, but unless they're wearing them in training and adding that to the picture it's a big gap in the data, particularly when it comes to those repeated sub-concussive impacts.

I had a bit of a read of some of the latest mouth guard studies on Google scholar, nd while training load is not nothing, by far the higher number of impacts, and magnitudes are during matches. 4x as many

 

[Wilson]

I had a bit of a read of some of the latest mouth guard studies and while training load is not nothing, by far the higher number of impacts, and magnitudes are during matches. 4x as many

Is that an average training session compared to a game, a weeks worth of training compared to a game, or based on the whole of season totals?

My biggest worry with the training load is that the events follow on closely from a game/other incidents in training that week and really limit the opportunity for rest and recovery, at least when there hasn't been a big enough incident to trigger an HIA initially. Hard to know if that's not being tracked.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Is that an average training session compared to a game, a weeks worth of training compared to a game, or based on the whole of season totals?

My biggest worry with the training load is that the events follow on closely from a game/other incidents in training that week and really limit the opportunity for rest and recovery, at least when there hasn't been a big enough incident to trigger an HIA initially. Hard to know if that's not being tracked.

All good questions. The study I read suggested this was comparing a season of training and matches, but probably much more research needed.

head acceleration events rugby union training - Google Scholar https://share.google/yXi7i5lPyeN1uIF6y

The average HAE incidence (~ 13–20% of weekly HAEs) and magnitude during an in-season training week is very low compared with matches. Opportunities to materially reduce HAE exposure in training are likely more limited than previously assumed

 

[LeCheese]

Looking forward to all of the inevitable "they shouldn't have even been on the field!" commentary any time a player does something good/bad and is caught on camera engaging in oral red light therapy

 

[Strewthcobber]

I hope they aren't putting too much faith in these mouth guards.

From World Rugby research (April 2024)

* Smart mouth guards are set at a trigger level that happens once per match on average (75g for men, 65g for women)

* 40 players had HIA1 wearing a mouthguard. 21 removed (9 triggered, 12 no trigger). 19 return to play (11 triggered, 8 no trigger)

* 21 failed HIA1, 2 or 3. (8 triggered, 13 no trigger)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I'd expect the tech to rapidly improve as uptake (& therefore revenue) increase. Will probably never be 100% but even 80-90% will save a lot of brains from irreparable damage.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Thats the hope.

The danger is these mouth guards replace the other checks and don't supplement. I think we are already seeing this, with players only taken off if the mouthguard triggers.

So concussed players are left on the field (the worst outcome)

By WR (World Rugby)'s own data, only 38% of concussed players triggered at current thresholds.

 

[liquor box]

Excuse my ignorance, but would the trigger point be the same for men and women, or even different genetic backgrounds?

Are some heads better designed to take a blow compared to others so the settings will be adjusted accordingly?

Do those with previous symptoms get a mouthguard that has a lower trigger point to ensure their safety?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Excuse my ignorance, but would the trigger point be the same for men and women, or even different genetic backgrounds?

Are some heads better designed to take a blow compared to others so the settings will be adjusted accordingly?

Do those with previous symptoms get a mouthguard that has a lower trigger point to ensure their safety?

Men = 75g, women = 65g.

It's literally set at a threshold that will trigger about once per game at pro level. It's not based on concussion risk