Cricket Summer of 2014/15

[Braveheart81]

Shane Watson will be 34 before the Ashes series starts later this year.

I'll freely admit that I've never been a fan but I also acknowledge that he has a lot of talent which has unfortunately not been fulfilled at test level.

It's kind of amazing to have only 4 test hundreds yet 24 test 50s.

His biggest value in my book is as a bowler to break partnerships. He's been quite good at that. I still think Australia should move on soon though. He just isn't achieving what is required from his position. He should be battling with Mitch Marsh, Burns and whoever else for the six spot.

 

[RugbyReg]

Exactly. I find the vitriol flung at him bemusing at best, and distasteful at worst. Bitch at the selectors, not the player. I remember a bloke called Steve Waugh who took several years in Test cricket to get a hundred. I'm not a big fan of Watson, by the way, I just don't get why he cops so much venom.

Waugh was picked for his toughness as much as anything. Hadn't don't much at shield level other than be a tough prick. Correct he didn't score a few 100s for a while but he bounced Sir Viv a few times and didn't carry on like a twat when he got wickets.

He was given chances and repaid in spades.

Watson has been given chances and proved nothing.

 

[Lindommer]

The fact Watson CAN score the odd 50 should be held against him. For mine, this score is grounds for instant dismissal.

Why isn't Sharma playing? Did I miss something? He is India's most experienced bowler.

Going to attend on Thursday or Friday, maybe both. Anyone want to join me?

 

[Lee Grant]

Going to attend on Thursday or Friday, maybe both. Anyone want to join me?

Went yesterday but I'll miss you today.

I was there early and got a good seat behind the bowler in the mezzanine or whatever they call it. Went over the road to watch the Waratahs train at tea time, then back for the end of play in front of the Ladies'.

I watched the Indians train before the game and it was mind-boggling how many they dropped at slips' catching. It shouldn't have been too surprising that they dropped them in the match also.

Warner was Warner but the rise of Steve Smith this season has been amazing. I never thought he could be that good.

Edit - and now he his scored his third first innings century in a row; so he's the first player to do that in his first three tests as captain.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I watched the Indians train before the game and it was mind-boggling how many they dropped at slips' catching. It shouldn't have been too surprising that they dropped them in the match also.

Gideon Haigh wrote or said something about that (I got it second hand off twitter). It went something like this:

The Indians are treating slips fielding like karaoke. Everyone gets a turn regardless of ability.

 

[Sully]

Watson's out. Comence the execution.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Watson's out. Comence the execution.

Probably don't need to say too much at this point Sully!

 

[Lee Grant]

I'll freely admit that I've never been a fan but I also acknowledge that he has a lot of talent which has unfortunately not been fulfilled at test level.

I don't think Shane Watson is going to be a success at number three in the next Ashes campaign, and I don't think that Smith should bat there ideally. I like the threes to have the technique of an opening batsman and Smith, who was an improvising five, now looks like he is a natural four and should stay there if Clarke is not around.

We have to source a three for England.

But maybe the shorter versions of the game have changed that mindset and technique is not an attribute that is as important as it used to be for threes; otherwise how can you reconcile Warner as an opener?

Maybe this good score of Watson, and the lack of other candidates is going to convince the selectors to keep him in the spot, but they'd have a notional asterisk against his name because of the poor quality first innings bowling of the visitors this season.

Perhaps the shorter versions of the sport are corrupting the technique of batsman and the pool of first-class cricketers is not producing classic threes. Most of the newish batsmen the Aussies have tried in the last few years have looked like test fives, tops.

Watson is in a difficult position: he does not have the technique of a three and may be found out by better test bowlers—but he may be the best candidate in the country.

On the other hand if he doesn't bat there he will have to bat below Smith and hopefully Clarke. He will be expected to bowl more overs as the gofer (because he is not a strike bowler), but is his body up to it these days?
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Warner and Smith are both aggressive and Smith's technique is certainly pretty unorthodox but how do they rate in the scheme of things?

I'm not convinced that Warner's technique isn't now better than Rogers as an opener when the bowling is difficult to face.

Clarke would have the best technique in the team but there is little doubt that Clarke, Warner and Smith are far and away the three best batsmen in the country. They're leagues ahead of everyone else now.

 

[I like to watch]

The fact Watson CAN score the odd 50 should be held against him. For mine, this score is grounds for instant dismissal.

I don't think so.
He is playing 3 because there is no one else.
I reckon if he was batting 5 or 6, he would be getting huge wraps.

 

[Brumby Runner]

We have to source a three for England.
.

Maybe Joe Burns will develop as a potential No 3. I understand he bats up the order for Qld, including opening the innings.

I think Watto's real problem is that he doesn't seem to steer the ball when he makes his shots - just opens the shoulders and hits it as hard as he can. Mostly, it goes to a fielder. Surprising in this innings how many runs he scored from mis-fields. And wouldn't you always have a fairly deep mid-wicket for him if you were the opposing captain?

Other options might be Ed Cowan who, as an opener, might do a good job at 3, or Nic Maddinson a bit further down the track.

 

[Highlander35]

If you dumped Twatto tomorrow, I'd move Shaun Marsh up to 3, and more or less tell him to sink or swim. Move Burns up to 5 and bring back Mitch Marsh at 6.

Longer term, you look at Burns, Maddinson and Lynn at 3, with Ed Cowan to replace Rogers for a couple of years as an opener. Wouldn't mind Ferguson as a first drop either. Voges is too old.

 

[Sully]

Watson has averaged 45 since the last ashes. Are any of those guys averaging that high? Do they also bowl?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Burns will hopefully kick on from here and move up the order (maybe even to three, given that he's a top order player for QLD). I wouldn't be batting Smith at three, he's doing great in the middle order where he is. Marsh might have found a home at five, even though he should be batting in the top three. His issue is that he's not really test standard there either. It's a real problem.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Watson has averaged 45 since the last ashes. Are any of those guys averaging that high? Do they also bowl?

I'm not advocating dropping Watto just yet, only down the order to bat at 6 like a real all rounder, if we can solve the issue of who to bat at 3. Watson's spot will come under pressure if Mitch Marsh proves to be a test standard batting all rounder.

 

[cyclopath]

Waugh was picked for his toughness as much as anything. Hadn't don't much at shield level other than be a tough prick. Correct he didn't score a few 100s for a while but he bounced Sir Viv a few times and didn't carry on like a twat when he got wickets.

He was given chances and repaid in spades.

Watson has been given chances and proved nothing.

Pfft. Selective history, methinks. Waugh became something. Watson has yet to. You choose to hate for other reasons. Hmmm, maybe he moved too south for you?

 

[RugbyReg]

which part is selective history?

As to your comments about 'other reasons' - ha! Perhaps that's part of it. I was a big fan but I can't justify his ongoing selection. Oh well, I can I guess. There's no one else. No Jamie Siddons, no Stuart Laws, Michael Divenutos, Darren Lehmans, Jamie Coxes, etc etc.

I just never really liked his attitude. The over emotion of it all. A full of bravado and then gets hit for a 4 and shoulders dropped like a school kid getting yelled at by the teacher. The outrageous wicket celebrations.

Most of my frustration/annoyance (not hate) is that he hasn't lived up to potential.

I think he's got the ability, but I don't think he's earned his spot. I'd actually prefer to give the spot to a younger guy (a Nic Maddison type person), but with Rogers and Haddin about to go and potentially Clarke, it's probably too late now.

 

[Braveheart81]

Watson has averaged 45 since the last ashes. Are any of those guys averaging that high? Do they also bowl?

Where did you get this from?

His test average post the 2013-14 Ashes series is a touch under 32.

His test average including that series is bang on his career average of 35.

If you go back to the last Ashes series in England in 2013, his average is 37.5.

Personally I think Watson's bowling is his biggest asset and he's taken a couple of fairly important wickets this series (Vijay for 60 odd, Rohit Sharma for 30 odd).

His average over a long time though is right around that mid 30s mark. It just isn't good enough, particularly for someone batting in such a key position.

At 33 years of age and 50 odd tests, surely the selectors need to acknowledge that this is how good he is in the test arena rather than continuing to hope that one day he starts dominating and averaging 45-50.

There are only two batsmen who played 50+ tests for Australia and averaged less than Watson (Geoff Marsh and Graeme Wood) and they played during what was mostly a pretty lean time for Australian cricket.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Don't know much about cricket (among many other things) but he's a protected species.
If you actually try to bowl him he breaks down.

 

[No4918]

5 players need to be fit for the next Ashes - Smith, Warner, Clarke, Harris & Johnson. Others are varying degrees of dispensable. In England against a better attack it is going to be a lot tougher going than we have seen so far this series.